3 ms·

I don't think he's an immediate threat to society or his daughter and hence don't support the imprisonment. The portrait painted by the Economist is, however,

I don't think he's an immediate threat to society or his daughter and hence don't support the imprisonment. The portrait painted by the Economist is, however, incomplete. I guess because the details are not pretty. Mr. Moskalyov was convicted three times before this trial (but haven't served any jail time): - in 1984 for theft - in 2004 for (illegal) imprisonment without kidnapping - in 2008 for violating production/transport safety regulations Apparently he's also not paying utilities/taxes and have no legal sources of income -- he's growing and selling exotic animals but that's off the books. Feel sorry for the kid the most...

SXX 4y ago
Do you really think it's important what he did 20 years ago? Half of Russia population don't pay taxes and occasionally have no money to cover their utility bills. Most people outside of Moscow only earn $300-500 / month. Also do you reallt think it's a good idea to pay taxes in Russia at this moment? All these taxes gonna be used to kill children in Ukraine.
- 331c8c71 4y ago
  > Do you really think it's important what he did 20 years ago To the extent it might have influenced the ruling... > Half of Russia population don't pay taxes and occasionally have no money to cover their utility bills. Most people outside of Moscow only earn $300-500 / month. 50% would be an overstatement. It's normally deducted directly by the employer regardless of the salary so you don't see that money to start with (and typically negotiate/agree on your net salary). People who don't pay utilities eventually get disconnected from electricity/gas etc.
  - iavael 4y ago
    > It's normally deducted directly by the employer regardless of the salary That's why paying cash "in envelope" is a common practice in SMB. "Grey salary" as it's called there: minimal wage level part is payed officially, rest is not. > People who don't pay utilities eventually get disconnected from electricity/gas etc. That's more of exception than a rule. Huge debts for utilities (for 1 year of consumption or even more) are quite common. As also practice of "shame lists" in apartment lobbies with apartment numbers and sums of debt.
lolinder 4y ago
First, what's your source for this claim? Russia's propaganda arm is massive and working 24/7, so you can't go spouting off claims like this without telling us where you're getting your information. We need to be able to vet your source. Second, given that we're talking about Russia's justice system, I wouldn't really care if this were true! Being convicted of a crime in Russia isn't proof you did it—it's just proof you're not in the Kremlin's good graces.
- 331c8c71 4y ago
  https://memopzk.org/figurant/moskalyov-aleksej-vladimirovich/ https://memopzk.org/figurant/moskalyov-aleksej-vladimirovich... https://m.newstula.ru/fn_1307328.html https://m.newstula.ru/fn_1307328.html The first one is from a widely known human rights advocacy group Memorial (which has tensions with the state). The second is a regional newspaper of sorts (hence state-controlled give or take).
  - lolinder 4y ago
    The first source gives a passing nod to past convictions with no details at all. The second source is completely state propaganda, no give or take. It doesn't even try to hide it, it's blatantly biased and leans fully into the idea that the accused is a mole planted by Western powers to discredit the government. Neither is a great source for your claims, and the fact that you cite the second at all in this context makes your motives highly suspect. English translation of the second source: https://newstula-ru.translate.goog/fn_1307328.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://newstula-ru.translate.goog/fn_1307328.html?_x_tr_sl=...
    - 331c8c71 4y ago
      I didn't say it was not propaganda, what I meant is that the degree of direct state control of regional press varies. Lots of papers write exactly in the same style even if they are completely private and no one tells them to - but they know what could happen if they start to dissent or even deviate from the "party line". Novaya corroborates one of the past convictions exactly https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/03/03/papa-menia-chut-ne-skhvatila-politsiia-ia-narisovala-risunok https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/03/03/papa-menia-chut-...
VincentEvans 4y ago
You seem to have a lot of facts handy - do you also happen to have an english translation of the letter his daughter sent to him that you can post here? Just to balance out 20 years old mud.
- 331c8c71 4y ago
  That's quite an accurate tranlation: https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/30/russian-girls-letter-sent-to-dad-before-he-was-jailed-for-anti-war-comments-18532250/ https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/30/russian-girls-letter-sent-to-...

SXX 4y ago

Do you really think it's important what he did 20 years ago? Half of Russia population don't pay taxes and occasionally have no money to cover their utility bills. Most people outside of Moscow only earn $300-500 / month. Also do you reallt think it's a good idea to pay taxes in Russia at this moment? All these taxes gonna be used to kill children in Ukraine.

331c8c71 4y ago
> Do you really think it's important what he did 20 years ago To the extent it might have influenced the ruling... > Half of Russia population don't pay taxes and occasionally have no money to cover their utility bills. Most people outside of Moscow only earn $300-500 / month. 50% would be an overstatement. It's normally deducted directly by the employer regardless of the salary so you don't see that money to start with (and typically negotiate/agree on your net salary). People who don't pay utilities eventually get disconnected from electricity/gas etc.
- iavael 4y ago
  > It's normally deducted directly by the employer regardless of the salary That's why paying cash "in envelope" is a common practice in SMB. "Grey salary" as it's called there: minimal wage level part is payed officially, rest is not. > People who don't pay utilities eventually get disconnected from electricity/gas etc. That's more of exception than a rule. Huge debts for utilities (for 1 year of consumption or even more) are quite common. As also practice of "shame lists" in apartment lobbies with apartment numbers and sums of debt.

lolinder 4y ago

First, what's your source for this claim? Russia's propaganda arm is massive and working 24/7, so you can't go spouting off claims like this without telling us where you're getting your information. We need to be able to vet your source. Second, given that we're talking about Russia's justice system, I wouldn't really care if this were true! Being convicted of a crime in Russia isn't proof you did it—it's just proof you're not in the Kremlin's good graces.

331c8c71 4y ago
https://memopzk.org/figurant/moskalyov-aleksej-vladimirovich/ https://memopzk.org/figurant/moskalyov-aleksej-vladimirovich... https://m.newstula.ru/fn_1307328.html https://m.newstula.ru/fn_1307328.html The first one is from a widely known human rights advocacy group Memorial (which has tensions with the state). The second is a regional newspaper of sorts (hence state-controlled give or take).
- lolinder 4y ago
  The first source gives a passing nod to past convictions with no details at all. The second source is completely state propaganda, no give or take. It doesn't even try to hide it, it's blatantly biased and leans fully into the idea that the accused is a mole planted by Western powers to discredit the government. Neither is a great source for your claims, and the fact that you cite the second at all in this context makes your motives highly suspect. English translation of the second source: https://newstula-ru.translate.goog/fn_1307328.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://newstula-ru.translate.goog/fn_1307328.html?_x_tr_sl=...
  - 331c8c71 4y ago
    I didn't say it was not propaganda, what I meant is that the degree of direct state control of regional press varies. Lots of papers write exactly in the same style even if they are completely private and no one tells them to - but they know what could happen if they start to dissent or even deviate from the "party line". Novaya corroborates one of the past convictions exactly https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/03/03/papa-menia-chut-ne-skhvatila-politsiia-ia-narisovala-risunok https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/03/03/papa-menia-chut-...

VincentEvans 4y ago

You seem to have a lot of facts handy - do you also happen to have an english translation of the letter his daughter sent to him that you can post here? Just to balance out 20 years old mud.

331c8c71 4y ago
That's quite an accurate tranlation: https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/30/russian-girls-letter-sent-to-dad-before-he-was-jailed-for-anti-war-comments-18532250/ https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/30/russian-girls-letter-sent-to-...