5 ms·

In a democracy, you are the government. What we see today in SF is the consequence of decades of hostility to construction and growth from the residents of SF.

ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
In the US, that's not entirely true. There's acts of voter suppression and gerrymandering that have been rampant for what feels like forever and persist today.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Is that what's happening in San Francisco?
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  I agree. The GOP gerrymandering SF so that they have complete control of city council is obviously the problem here. /s There are no GOP members in City government, and haven't been for a long, long time. This is the result of progressive policies. Accept that or this will continue. https://sfbgarchive.48hills.org/sfbgarchive/2014/08/05/last-republican/ https://sfbgarchive.48hills.org/sfbgarchive/2014/08/05/last-...
  - anon291 4y ago
    Americans have a major fetish for blaming the GOP. In my city of Portland which has many similar problems to sf, I constantly hear the reasons things are so bad is the GOP. What causes this kind of analysis to become so widespread?
    - throwayyy479087 4y ago
      People don't like to believe that problems are of their own making. You legalize meth, then your city fills up with people using meth - that's not the problem of the GOP. There's approximately no Republicans in Seattle, SF, or Portland - the problem is progressivism.
  - ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
    >I agree. The GOP gerrymandering SF so that they have complete control of city council is obviously the problem here. /s Hey now, I was addressing this part of the comment "In a democracy, you are the government" I am speaking as someone who lives in a red state where our abortion laws have been rolled back and have seen the impact of the gerrymandering first hand. This is the result of conservative policies and will likely have a negative effect on our state; whether by an exodus of those who don't see the point in staying or by increasing poverty for forced birth for those who can't afford to skirt the laws >This is the result of progressive policies. Accept that or this will continue. I don't live in SF so I can't speak with any authority to how much worse it has become. I can say that my city's murder rate is almost 50% higher than SF while being much smaller. From what I've read, SF is at least trying something in terms of harm reduction instead of just outright criminalizing or ignoring, which is what we're do and isn't working. I don't have the answers and it seems to be a difficult task to come up with plans without violating a person's autonomy.
    - throwayyy479087 4y ago
      This post is about a murder in SF. Not about your home state. It's got nothing to do with the GOP.
      - ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
        I did not mention the GOP initially. You did in your reply and I replied to you. As mentioned earlier, I was addressing this part of the comment "In a democracy, you are the government" No one forced you to interact with me and I think we're both worse off that you chose to do so.
TechBro8615 4y ago
I can maybe understand the premise that fewer houses means more homelessness. Although I'm skeptical that it's a direct cause, and undoubtedly many homeless people in SF did not become homeless in SF, but migrated there after they lost their home or became addicted elsewhere. It's a commonly promoted trope to blame all of SF's problems on wealth inequality and the housing market. But it could be an oversimplification that hand-waves a difficult discussion, which only ends up exacerbating the problem. Can you articulate how housing policy leads to drug addiction, open air drug markets, high rates of property crime, and general non-enforcement of criminality?
- istjohn 4y ago
  You're skeptical housing shortages cause homelessness? How could it be otherwise? To address your question, it's incredibly difficult to cope with mental illness or overcome addiction while homeless. It's also difficult to hold down a job. Drug use and joblessness lead to property crime and open air drug markets.
  - TechBro8615 4y ago
    > You're skeptical housing shortages cause homelessness? How could it be otherwise? Well, people could become homeless outside of San Francisco (possibly after becoming addicted to drugs), and then migrate to San Francisco. Even in the hypothetical scenario where houses cost nothing but are unavailable in San Francisco, it would seem misleading to blame that SF housing shortage for the homelessness of someone who migrated there after becoming homeless. Is there data available for how many people currently homeless in San Francisco became homeless in San Francisco? That is, where did they last rent property? I'm not being snarky; I'm curious what the percentages are like. My guess is that a significant majority of homeless people in San Francisco were previously renting in another location, then got evicted, and then eventually moved to SF. > it's incredibly difficult to cope with mental illness or overcome addiction while homeless. It's also difficult to hold down a job. Yes, that's true, once you're homeless. My question is about how the housing shortage in San Francisco causes homelessness. That is, how does housing policy in a jurisdiction lead to people becoming homeless after they were previously living in a property within that jurisdiction? Also, consider what might make a city an appealing destination for someone who becomes homeless while addicted to drugs. If your heroin addiction gets you kicked out of your apartment in Reno, and you're looking to score some smack, why not catch a $15 Greyhound to San Francisco? It's an easy place to buy drugs, and it's a city well known for its citizens and authorities tolerating people openly using drugs and sleeping on the street. And when you run out of money, you can smash a few car windows until you find some cash, then walk a few blocks to exchange it for drugs from your nearest heroin dealer.
jollyllama 4y ago
>you are the government Maybe if you're a moneyed donor.

ilikecakeandpie 4y ago

In the US, that's not entirely true. There's acts of voter suppression and gerrymandering that have been rampant for what feels like forever and persist today.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Is that what's happening in San Francisco?
throwayyy479087 4y ago
I agree. The GOP gerrymandering SF so that they have complete control of city council is obviously the problem here. /s There are no GOP members in City government, and haven't been for a long, long time. This is the result of progressive policies. Accept that or this will continue. https://sfbgarchive.48hills.org/sfbgarchive/2014/08/05/last-republican/ https://sfbgarchive.48hills.org/sfbgarchive/2014/08/05/last-...
- anon291 4y ago
  Americans have a major fetish for blaming the GOP. In my city of Portland which has many similar problems to sf, I constantly hear the reasons things are so bad is the GOP. What causes this kind of analysis to become so widespread?
  - throwayyy479087 4y ago
    People don't like to believe that problems are of their own making. You legalize meth, then your city fills up with people using meth - that's not the problem of the GOP. There's approximately no Republicans in Seattle, SF, or Portland - the problem is progressivism.
- ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
  >I agree. The GOP gerrymandering SF so that they have complete control of city council is obviously the problem here. /s Hey now, I was addressing this part of the comment "In a democracy, you are the government" I am speaking as someone who lives in a red state where our abortion laws have been rolled back and have seen the impact of the gerrymandering first hand. This is the result of conservative policies and will likely have a negative effect on our state; whether by an exodus of those who don't see the point in staying or by increasing poverty for forced birth for those who can't afford to skirt the laws >This is the result of progressive policies. Accept that or this will continue. I don't live in SF so I can't speak with any authority to how much worse it has become. I can say that my city's murder rate is almost 50% higher than SF while being much smaller. From what I've read, SF is at least trying something in terms of harm reduction instead of just outright criminalizing or ignoring, which is what we're do and isn't working. I don't have the answers and it seems to be a difficult task to come up with plans without violating a person's autonomy.
  - throwayyy479087 4y ago
    This post is about a murder in SF. Not about your home state. It's got nothing to do with the GOP.
    - ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
      I did not mention the GOP initially. You did in your reply and I replied to you. As mentioned earlier, I was addressing this part of the comment "In a democracy, you are the government" No one forced you to interact with me and I think we're both worse off that you chose to do so.

TechBro8615 4y ago

I can maybe understand the premise that fewer houses means more homelessness. Although I'm skeptical that it's a direct cause, and undoubtedly many homeless people in SF did not become homeless in SF, but migrated there after they lost their home or became addicted elsewhere. It's a commonly promoted trope to blame all of SF's problems on wealth inequality and the housing market. But it could be an oversimplification that hand-waves a difficult discussion, which only ends up exacerbating the problem. Can you articulate how housing policy leads to drug addiction, open air drug markets, high rates of property crime, and general non-enforcement of criminality?

istjohn 4y ago
You're skeptical housing shortages cause homelessness? How could it be otherwise? To address your question, it's incredibly difficult to cope with mental illness or overcome addiction while homeless. It's also difficult to hold down a job. Drug use and joblessness lead to property crime and open air drug markets.
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  > You're skeptical housing shortages cause homelessness? How could it be otherwise? Well, people could become homeless outside of San Francisco (possibly after becoming addicted to drugs), and then migrate to San Francisco. Even in the hypothetical scenario where houses cost nothing but are unavailable in San Francisco, it would seem misleading to blame that SF housing shortage for the homelessness of someone who migrated there after becoming homeless. Is there data available for how many people currently homeless in San Francisco became homeless in San Francisco? That is, where did they last rent property? I'm not being snarky; I'm curious what the percentages are like. My guess is that a significant majority of homeless people in San Francisco were previously renting in another location, then got evicted, and then eventually moved to SF. > it's incredibly difficult to cope with mental illness or overcome addiction while homeless. It's also difficult to hold down a job. Yes, that's true, once you're homeless. My question is about how the housing shortage in San Francisco causes homelessness. That is, how does housing policy in a jurisdiction lead to people becoming homeless after they were previously living in a property within that jurisdiction? Also, consider what might make a city an appealing destination for someone who becomes homeless while addicted to drugs. If your heroin addiction gets you kicked out of your apartment in Reno, and you're looking to score some smack, why not catch a $15 Greyhound to San Francisco? It's an easy place to buy drugs, and it's a city well known for its citizens and authorities tolerating people openly using drugs and sleeping on the street. And when you run out of money, you can smash a few car windows until you find some cash, then walk a few blocks to exchange it for drugs from your nearest heroin dealer.

jollyllama 4y ago

>you are the government Maybe if you're a moneyed donor.