4 ms·

The police aren't defunded in San Francisco. They have consistently gotten budget increases. It's just that instead of hiring more, they spend it on overtime pa

The police aren't defunded in San Francisco. They have consistently gotten budget increases. It's just that instead of hiring more, they spend it on overtime pay (1.5X normal rate) for people driving around and doing nothing. https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/sfpd-pay-millions-more-for-officers-to-work-fewer-hours-why/ https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/sfpd-pay-millions-mo...

alach11 4y ago
It's crazy how effective the narrative is that the police were "defunded" when you're in here dropping facts showing the opposite.
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  Yup. It's crucial to flag the bad-faith rabble-rousers to ensure HN doesn't become as bad as, say, reddit.
  - censor_me 4y ago
    [dead]
- zdragnar 4y ago
  The article doesn't really support the post, though: " SF’s police department has 335 fewer full-duty police officers than it did in 2017, with a total of 1,537 officers as of January, according to Supervisor Matt Dorsey, a former police communications staffer. A police staffing analysis indicated that the department needs upward of 2,100 sworn officers to satisfy city demands. As fewer officers are available to patrol streets or respond to incidents, the department says it has been forced to ask staff to work longer hours or pick up extra shifts. " When the force is at 75% capacity, officers are overworked and deprioritizing non-emergency responses. It's a recipe for more George Floyds, not less.
  - graywh 4y ago
    a lot of police departments are running these kinds of manpower deficits due to lack of applicants
- keneda7 4y ago
  It is crazy to me how many people just straight up lie on here. The article the poster linked to does not show the overall department budget, rather that was spent on employees' wages. I don't see you or the other poster mentioning this at all though. Here is an article you can see the overall budget of numerous police departments including SF https://abc7news.com/sfpd-budget-defund-the-police-department-funding/12321818/ https://abc7news.com/sfpd-budget-defund-the-police-departmen... 18-19: 629.8M 19-20: 692.3M 20-21: 667.9M 21-22: 657.4M I believe I see one increase and two decreases. Between 18-19 to 19-20 the departments funding increased. While the department had funding decreased from 19-20 to 20-21 and again from 20-21 to 21-22. Now whether or not this defunding (funding decrease) was due to "defund the police" or some other factor I cannot say. However I can say for a fact that the narrative police were NOT defunded is wrong. I have provided 2 overall budgets that show they were defunded for two separate time periods. Its also worth noting we are not adjusting for inflation or cost of living increases.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    Your numbers don't include supplemental $27.5 million to fund police overtime in 21-22 or the increase to $761.9 million in 22-23. By my count, that's 3 increases and one decrease. https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/sf-mayor-27m-police-overtime-proposal/ https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/sf-mayor-27m-police-overtim... https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/BLA.SF_Police_Dept._Budget_032023.pdf https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/BLA.SF_Police_Dept._Bu...
    - keneda7 4y ago
      So just be clear you are claiming there is 0 defunding but then admit by your count there is one decrease which is also known as defunding? Also based on the timeline for 21-22 they defunded, then recognized the need more money because you know they defunded from the previous year so then allocated more funding. The article I linked didn't have 22-23.
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        And just to be clear, you're agreeing with somebody who claimed that SFPD is defunded and is only acting differently because they are currently defunded. You're also saying that 3 out of 4 isn't consistent. Fine. Does that make me a liar, or are you picking nits? > The article I linked didn't have 22-23. That's what I said.
carlivar 4y ago
What about prosecution? I agree the police aren't defunded, but aren't prosecutors and judges becoming more lenient? This has to be demoralizing for police. Combined with housing costs and you have a vicious cycle of a recruitment issue. I would expect overtime pay to be up if hiring is difficult.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Why should it be demoralizing? After they make the arrest and submit the case report, their job is done. If the DA decides to prosecute and the defendant requests a jury trial, they have to go to court and submit testimony. Whether the DA decides to divert a drug offender to rehab or tries to put them in prison is not SFPD's problem. Whichever one results in higher recidivism will make their job of finding a new person to arrest easier. The problem is they're not making arrests, even when the evidence is handed to them on a silver platter, and they haven't been making arrests for decades.
  - carlivar 4y ago
    Well I guess it doesn't matter if code ships either. Work hard coding it, and if it gets thrown out and never used despite your hard work, that's the way it goes. As for not making arrests, isn't that self reinforcing? Of course police will slow down arrests if the other end is not completing the process. I find your view of this unusual and puzzling.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      They get paid to do a job. I find your view that it's reasonable for them not to do a job because they would do somebody else's job differently utterly incomprehensible.
      - carlivar 4y ago
        Well it's nice to know that organizations such as the Trump Presidential Campaign and Exxon-Mobil will never have any difficulty recruiting any task-bots, I mean, employees.
bnralt 4y ago
Eh. A lot of people are ignoring that most cities did move in the defund police direction in 2020 and 2021, and then tried to reverse course and pretend it didn’t happen. For instance, this is from 2021[1]: “San Francisco Mayor London Breed announces cuts to police in new city budget”. The problem is you can’t suddenly reverse course, and cuts can have an impact for years to come, especially with the long lead time for things like recruitment and training. [1] https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-budget-announcement-defund-sfpd-the-police-london-breed-press-conference/6345069/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-budget-announcement-defun...
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  And you're ignoring that this proposed budget cut never happened. The Dream Keeper Initiative was paid for from the general fund instead of from SFPD budget. https://www.sfweekly.com/archives/is-san-francisco-re-funding-the-police/article_f7f50019-0eaf-51b0-bc84-585a8889e77a.html https://www.sfweekly.com/archives/is-san-francisco-re-fundin...
  - bnralt 4y ago
    According to your article, the police department budget for 2019-20 was $692, and the proposal for 2021-22 was $661. Which would definitely be less. But even worse when you adjust for inflation - the 2019-20 budget would be $733 million in 2021 dollars, compared to the $661 for the 2021-22 budget. Also worth quoting this section of the article you linked to: > That means over the two year budget period, the city reduced law enforcement spending to the tune of $110 million. As the budget process continues, supervisors will have the opportunity to propose further cuts that could get closer to $120 million, like they did last year.

alach11 4y ago

It's crazy how effective the narrative is that the police were "defunded" when you're in here dropping facts showing the opposite.

dpkirchner 4y ago
Yup. It's crucial to flag the bad-faith rabble-rousers to ensure HN doesn't become as bad as, say, reddit.
- censor_me 4y ago
  [dead]
zdragnar 4y ago
The article doesn't really support the post, though: " SF’s police department has 335 fewer full-duty police officers than it did in 2017, with a total of 1,537 officers as of January, according to Supervisor Matt Dorsey, a former police communications staffer. A police staffing analysis indicated that the department needs upward of 2,100 sworn officers to satisfy city demands. As fewer officers are available to patrol streets or respond to incidents, the department says it has been forced to ask staff to work longer hours or pick up extra shifts. " When the force is at 75% capacity, officers are overworked and deprioritizing non-emergency responses. It's a recipe for more George Floyds, not less.
- graywh 4y ago
  a lot of police departments are running these kinds of manpower deficits due to lack of applicants
keneda7 4y ago
It is crazy to me how many people just straight up lie on here. The article the poster linked to does not show the overall department budget, rather that was spent on employees' wages. I don't see you or the other poster mentioning this at all though. Here is an article you can see the overall budget of numerous police departments including SF https://abc7news.com/sfpd-budget-defund-the-police-department-funding/12321818/ https://abc7news.com/sfpd-budget-defund-the-police-departmen... 18-19: 629.8M 19-20: 692.3M 20-21: 667.9M 21-22: 657.4M I believe I see one increase and two decreases. Between 18-19 to 19-20 the departments funding increased. While the department had funding decreased from 19-20 to 20-21 and again from 20-21 to 21-22. Now whether or not this defunding (funding decrease) was due to "defund the police" or some other factor I cannot say. However I can say for a fact that the narrative police were NOT defunded is wrong. I have provided 2 overall budgets that show they were defunded for two separate time periods. Its also worth noting we are not adjusting for inflation or cost of living increases.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Your numbers don't include supplemental $27.5 million to fund police overtime in 21-22 or the increase to $761.9 million in 22-23. By my count, that's 3 increases and one decrease. https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/sf-mayor-27m-police-overtime-proposal/ https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/sf-mayor-27m-police-overtim... https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/BLA.SF_Police_Dept._Budget_032023.pdf https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/BLA.SF_Police_Dept._Bu...
  - keneda7 4y ago
    So just be clear you are claiming there is 0 defunding but then admit by your count there is one decrease which is also known as defunding? Also based on the timeline for 21-22 they defunded, then recognized the need more money because you know they defunded from the previous year so then allocated more funding. The article I linked didn't have 22-23.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      And just to be clear, you're agreeing with somebody who claimed that SFPD is defunded and is only acting differently because they are currently defunded. You're also saying that 3 out of 4 isn't consistent. Fine. Does that make me a liar, or are you picking nits? > The article I linked didn't have 22-23. That's what I said.

carlivar 4y ago

What about prosecution? I agree the police aren't defunded, but aren't prosecutors and judges becoming more lenient? This has to be demoralizing for police. Combined with housing costs and you have a vicious cycle of a recruitment issue. I would expect overtime pay to be up if hiring is difficult.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
Why should it be demoralizing? After they make the arrest and submit the case report, their job is done. If the DA decides to prosecute and the defendant requests a jury trial, they have to go to court and submit testimony. Whether the DA decides to divert a drug offender to rehab or tries to put them in prison is not SFPD's problem. Whichever one results in higher recidivism will make their job of finding a new person to arrest easier. The problem is they're not making arrests, even when the evidence is handed to them on a silver platter, and they haven't been making arrests for decades.
- carlivar 4y ago
  Well I guess it doesn't matter if code ships either. Work hard coding it, and if it gets thrown out and never used despite your hard work, that's the way it goes. As for not making arrests, isn't that self reinforcing? Of course police will slow down arrests if the other end is not completing the process. I find your view of this unusual and puzzling.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    They get paid to do a job. I find your view that it's reasonable for them not to do a job because they would do somebody else's job differently utterly incomprehensible.
    - carlivar 4y ago
      Well it's nice to know that organizations such as the Trump Presidential Campaign and Exxon-Mobil will never have any difficulty recruiting any task-bots, I mean, employees.

bnralt 4y ago

Eh. A lot of people are ignoring that most cities did move in the defund police direction in 2020 and 2021, and then tried to reverse course and pretend it didn’t happen. For instance, this is from 2021[1]: “San Francisco Mayor London Breed announces cuts to police in new city budget”. The problem is you can’t suddenly reverse course, and cuts can have an impact for years to come, especially with the long lead time for things like recruitment and training. [1] https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-budget-announcement-defund-sfpd-the-police-london-breed-press-conference/6345069/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-budget-announcement-defun...

lern_too_spel 4y ago
And you're ignoring that this proposed budget cut never happened. The Dream Keeper Initiative was paid for from the general fund instead of from SFPD budget. https://www.sfweekly.com/archives/is-san-francisco-re-funding-the-police/article_f7f50019-0eaf-51b0-bc84-585a8889e77a.html https://www.sfweekly.com/archives/is-san-francisco-re-fundin...
- bnralt 4y ago
  According to your article, the police department budget for 2019-20 was $692, and the proposal for 2021-22 was $661. Which would definitely be less. But even worse when you adjust for inflation - the 2019-20 budget would be $733 million in 2021 dollars, compared to the $661 for the 2021-22 budget. Also worth quoting this section of the article you linked to: > That means over the two year budget period, the city reduced law enforcement spending to the tune of $110 million. As the budget process continues, supervisors will have the opportunity to propose further cuts that could get closer to $120 million, like they did last year.