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> It's super safe here, and it's normal thing to see young females taking a dog out for a walk in 22-02h. A small point about language, in case you or anyone e

• drstewart 4y ago
  > In English, it sounds weird to use "female" as a noun to refer to people. By "it sounds weird" you actually mean "in the past few years there's been a movement to hyperfocus on this small language quirk that nobody really cared about in the past". Just so we're clear.
  • lph 4y ago
    I'll go further than "sounds weird". It's a shibboleth that associates the speaker with certain misogynistic red-pill internet subcultures. Anybody who doesn't want that association should probably just say "women" instead.
    • dontupvoteme 4y ago
      Or perhaps, just perhaps, they're non-english natives who speak English as a second (or third, fourth, etc) language and have no knowledge or interest in absurd internet-american-english witchhunts? Yes incels are utterly annoying despicable broken records of tediously uncreative low quality mental illness, i also strongly dislike them - but for monolinguist americans to start to paint with such an absurdly wide brush is far worse. Choose your bloody battles.
  • notamy 4y ago
    I don't. I mean it genuinely sounds odd to me. Most people who word things that way don't use the term "males" in a similar way; what's wrong about wanting people to use language consistently? Don't push your biases onto me.
    • thunky 4y ago
      > it genuinely sounds odd to me. What sounds odd to you can be perfectly normal to others. > Don't push your biases onto me. Might want to try taking your own advice.
      • notamy 4y ago
        > Might want to try taking your own advice. Please show me where I did any of: - Assume why people are using the words they are - Assume why people care/don't care about a certain issue - Tried to force my values onto people. Saying "if you didn't know, wording things this way can come off weird. Maybe try X instead? No pressure (:" is very different from "yeah well obviously your intent here is X [because of the last few years]." I'm not here to force people to change. But if people didn't know something, and do want to change on their own, I'd rather the information be there for them if they want it.
• that_guy_iain 4y ago
  >Using "female" as a noun for people can come off as dehumanising since it's how we refer to ex. animals in various situations. Honestly, it's all about context and really the people say "oh he used female workers instead of women workers" what a pig are the people who are going to be mad no matter what they're literally just looking for an excuse. And quite simply I find that demonisation of the word female to be rude and fundamentally sexist. We wouldn't have a problem saying "two males walking around" but in escence you would have a problem with "two females walking around". The fact being female is considered dehumanisng is a problem in itself and sexist. Being male is not dehumanising. See how that got turned around? You had good intentions then I got mad and used your words againist you.
  • notamy 4y ago
    > We wouldn't have a problem saying "two males walking around" I do. Say "men" or similar. Calling men/boys "males" is just as dehumanising as calling women/girls "females." Treat EVERYONE properly.
    • that_guy_iain 4y ago
      It is very common to say "I saw two males doing x" when reporting what you saw. Just as common as saying you say two men. And this proves my point, you would have a problem no matter what. You're just wanting to be outraged. Imagine thinking someone's gender dehumanising them. It makes no sense. The idea "You're not as human as them because you're male" is an asburd one.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • notamy 4y ago
        > Imagine thinking someone's gender dehumanising them. It makes no sense. The idea "You're not as human as them because you're male" is an asburd one. Absolutely not what I'm saying. My objection to it is specifically that referring to someone with "male"/"female" as a noun, in common contexts, can -- not will -- come off as dehumanising, particularly when some people tend to only use "male" or "female" for one gender and not the other. > You're just wanting to be outraged. I want people who both don't know that smth may make others uncomfortable and want to change in that case have the relevant information. If you don't want to change, then... good for you? That's not my problem. You do you, I guess?
• agentofoblivion 4y ago
  English is my first (and only) language and I’ve never heard of this. I would say that it not only doesn’t sound weird, but is totally normal. Who told you this isn’t correct?
  • notamy 4y ago
    > Who told you this isn’t correct? The last few years aside, I've always had an issue with it. In my personal experience, people who tend to call women/girls "females" never, ever use the word "males" to describe men/boys in similar context. It's about using language consistently imo.
    • junofan 4y ago
      That’s fine, but it’s disingenuous to dress it up with an “in English it sounds weird...” There’s nothing wrong to my ears as a native speaker.
    • the_lonely_road 4y ago
      This is a new wave thing pretty much only prominent in online spaces like Reddit. Read some fantasy by female author Robin Hobb and she will regularly use the word. Spend anytime immersed in minority culture and you will frequently hear females used with affection. At best this argument is right up there with “chicks”. Some groups in some places decided to be offended while other groups in other places proudly refer to themselves as Dixie Chicks. It likely stems from online incel communities using the word frequently when discussing…females.
      • philwelch 4y ago
        It’s not entirely new. As late as the mid-20th century, the term “female” was considered vaguely dehumanizing when applied to women even as an adjective. Here’s a Google Ngram graph showing changes in usage over time: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=female+lawyer%2Cwoman+lawyer&year_start=1920&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=female+lawyer%...
      • 4y ago
• bluedino 4y ago
  It's common in certain circles.
• slibhb 4y ago
  I see nothing wrong with the previous poster's use of "females". Males/females is sometimes used instead of men/women in a forensic context (e.g. a police report or an objective description: "female athlete," "single white female," etc).
  • kerkeslager 4y ago
    This isn't a forensic context, though.
• blackSnake 4y ago
  I don't know about this either. It sounds fine to me and I hear both used interchangeably (from NYC area). I've also seen it written both ways. To the original comment, you're fine IMHO.
• cylinder 4y ago
  [flagged]
• strken 4y ago
  Saying males or females is putting emotional distance between you and the subject. One possible reason for creating that distance might be to dehumanise, but it's far from the only reason, as you presumably know quite well. If you or anyone else didn't know, consider a police report or a research paper in which the language is deliberately distant to avoid biasing the reader: "The two female victims were struck by the SUV, and the male suspect fled on foot", "we observed higher rates of CVD for males in the treatment group, but in females the effect size was not significant", and equally bloodless language. This may be dehumanising in some sense, but it's done in a benign way to help the reader be objective. It's easy for a non-native speaker to make a mistake in informal language after reading formal material like the aforementioned, and it might not be great to call out minor breaches of etiquette in such a targeted and public way.
  • Kudos 4y ago
    > It's easy for a non-native speaker to make a mistake in informal language after reading formal material like the aforementioned, and it might not be great to call out minor breaches of etiquette in such a targeted and public way. It seemed to be addressed in a respectful and understanding manner, what's wrong with helping someone (and apparently a bunch of bystanders) learn from their mistake?
• throwaway4aday 4y ago
  Why are all of your sources from reddit?
• boeingUH60 4y ago
  Thanks, I guess, for diverting the discussion into something unimportant.
• camdenlock 4y ago
  A small point about self-righteousness in case you or anyone else didn’t know: asserting your own beliefs as dogma is often counter-productive in a forum like HN. Stating that you’ve got information that CLEARLY everyone else needs to be taught; that you’re just trying to be helpful; that nobody should feel pressured to conform “immediately”; all comes off as disingenuous at best and threatening at worst. Instead, try asking questions and engaging in conversation rather than lecturing. As to the topic at hand: in what way is it dehumanizing to refer to a human as male or female? Being male or female is a fundamental part of being human, not something to be erased or ashamed of. I am a trans woman: a human male who identifies and lives socially as a woman. Should I hide the fact that I’m male? Why?
• collegeburner 4y ago
  it's pretty common in aave/ebonics, that's probably how it's become more common. lots of slang has mainstreamed from the black community in the past few yrs