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This has happened in Minneapolis. Since George Floyd police in Minneapolis have effectively stopped doing their job. When one of their own is treated by the la

This has happened in Minneapolis. Since George Floyd police in Minneapolis have effectively stopped doing their job. When one of their own is treated by the law like anyone else would be they retaliate by refusing to work. Police feel entitled to be free of genuine consequence for their actions. For example, police commit more domestic violence on average than non-police and rarely get arrested for it.

pandaman 4y ago
When they are treated like anyone else i.e. people who do not enforce the law they act like anyone else i.e. don't enforce the law, why would you expect anything else?
- anoonmoose 4y ago
  because they took the job
  - pandaman 4y ago
    They took a job that had different conditions. It used to be that the police could arrest people and use force (why everyone else could not).
    - syzarian 4y ago
      One should expect to live in a society in which police are not immune from breaking the law. When they mete out non judicial punishment then they should be held accountable for it in the same way I would be held accountable.
      - pandaman 4y ago
        Depends on one's definition of punishment. I for one don't consider any use of force to be a punishment. The police's use of force to apprehend a suspect in crime or to prevent a crime in progress is not a punishment, IMHO. I'd rather live in a society that agrees with this so I don't live in SF or Minneapolis.
        syzarian 4y ago
        Obviously no one is saying force should never be utilized by the police. Are you unable to understand or imagine a police force functioning in such a way that they use reasonable force to apprehend suspects and don’t beat with impunity those that are already in custody? Police in Minneapolis murdered a suspect and the response to the offending officers being convicted by a jury was to stop doing their job and you appear think this is a reasonable response. It is disheartening that you appear to be so willing to go along with with whatever police do all in the name of safety. Do you really view the world in such a way that you can’t comprehend having a police force that does it’s job without beating suspects who are already in custody?
        pandaman 4y ago
        Obviously we are listening to different people because people say just that in this very same thread. Also I don't see Escadrones de la Muerte being a problem in Minneapolis or anywhere in the US for that matter, so what extrajudicial punishment you are taking about if you don't mind my asking?
        syzarian 4y ago
        Can you point who said in this thread that police should never use force? https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/2/3/22263444/new-chicago-police-torture-archive-details-acts-of-jon-burge-and-underlings https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/2/3/22263444/new-chicago-p... Note that Burge was arrested for lying to a jury during a civil lawsuit not for torture.
        pandaman 4y ago
        It appears to be you, who claimed that the police actions should be judged just like everyone else's here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35452473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35452473 Everyone else cannot really use force to arrest suspects and using force to prevent crime in progress is a very complicated matter for regular citizens too.
      - gordian-mind 4y ago
        Actually, one should expect to live in a society where you do not get randomly stabbed and die in the street. This means that the spirit of law should reflect the necessity that arresting criminals gets higher priority than prosecuting cops. In fact, by treating the two as the same, you commit a deep injustice, because a violent action does not get judged the same as its violent reaction.
        syzarian 4y ago
        This means that the spirit of law should reflect the necessity that arresting criminals gets higher priority than prosecuting cops. I don’t think you understand the implications of what you just wrote. I thank you for stating this because it means we are in complete agreement. When a cop breaks the law they are in fact a criminal and, as you just stated, prosecuting criminals gets a high priority. We agree. Criminals ought to be prosecuted. I’m glad you are in favor of prosecuting police who break the law.
    - hobs 4y ago
      Ah yes, "I had an expectation that I could beat the hell out of people with no consequence when there was no call for violence." defense. No one is complaining when a cop uses force, they are complaining when a cop goes out of their way to murder, torture, and beat the shit out of normal citizenry who often put up little to no fight. They are complaining about when the cops drop flashbangs into baby's cribs and getting no charges. https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grena... If this is the conditions the police would like to return to, they should all go to jail.
      - gordian-mind 4y ago
        > If this is the conditions the police would like to return to, they should all go to jail. What a totally normal democratic thing to say.
        syzarian 4y ago
        Obviously it was hyperbole. Instead of addressing the essence of the point made you counter with this. Your response says much about how strong the argument you responded to is.
      - steve76 4y ago
        [dead]
    - anoonmoose 4y ago
      I'm not going to apologize that they're no longer allowed to beat and murder people with impunity...as much/as frequently/as blatantly.
mc32 4y ago
Also politicians pass laws that citizens need to abide —they have specific carve outs for themselves allowing them to skirt laws (such as trading on insider information for members of Congress).
- softjobs 4y ago
  Or government-sponsored healthcare. But no #M4A for the proles, because that's SOCIALISM.
pydry 4y ago
This would probably be a lot more rare if the Camden NJ option of "fire and replace the whole department" were invoked for underperformance and/or corruption.
mjfl 4y ago
So there's a tradeoff. Are you saying you would rather live in a high crime state, with tech founders being stabbed to death, than let them have their way?
- syzarian 4y ago
  It should be expected to have a police force that enforces the laws while not allowing police to mete out non judicial punishment. It’s possible for police to do their job without needing to beat whomever they want, whenever they want, without fear of prosecution.
  - mjfl 4y ago
    then do it. Will you and other citizens get in uniform?
    - syzarian 4y ago
      In case you aren’t aware, people can only hold a couple of jobs and one time and it’s ok for them to critique policies and actions of people in jobs they don’t have or ever intend to have. I can criticize a politician’s performance even though I don’t ever intend to become one. There is nothing illogical or hypocritical about this.
      - mjfl 4y ago
        in a democracy, if you point the finger at something and come to a bad conclusion, and then demand a ridiculous, unworkable solution, it is my duty as a fellow citizen to inform you and other voters that you are extremely wrong! That's what I'm trying to do. There's actually no super policeman hiding out there that can do what you say, and guarantee that across a population of over 300 million people there will never be violent interactions between the police and the citizenry. It is insane to suggest that.
        lukebitts 4y ago
daltont 4y ago
Seem that such corruption starts very innocuously. I remember police officer acquaintances saying being a cop means you can always use that fact to never get a speeding ticket. I never felt that they were shady people I think they are likely decent people with a difficult job, but something about that fact did sort of bothered me. I would like to think that a police officer driving very dangerously or even drunk would not being to get away with it that easily.
- tough 4y ago
  There was a famous ghost rider in the cannonballs in the 70s or 80s', which would always win the race and never stay to socialise. After a few years of having retired, he came out being a cop.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

pandaman 4y ago

When they are treated like anyone else i.e. people who do not enforce the law they act like anyone else i.e. don't enforce the law, why would you expect anything else?

anoonmoose 4y ago
because they took the job
- pandaman 4y ago
  They took a job that had different conditions. It used to be that the police could arrest people and use force (why everyone else could not).
  - syzarian 4y ago
    One should expect to live in a society in which police are not immune from breaking the law. When they mete out non judicial punishment then they should be held accountable for it in the same way I would be held accountable.
    - pandaman 4y ago
      Depends on one's definition of punishment. I for one don't consider any use of force to be a punishment. The police's use of force to apprehend a suspect in crime or to prevent a crime in progress is not a punishment, IMHO. I'd rather live in a society that agrees with this so I don't live in SF or Minneapolis.
      - syzarian 4y ago
        Obviously no one is saying force should never be utilized by the police. Are you unable to understand or imagine a police force functioning in such a way that they use reasonable force to apprehend suspects and don’t beat with impunity those that are already in custody? Police in Minneapolis murdered a suspect and the response to the offending officers being convicted by a jury was to stop doing their job and you appear think this is a reasonable response. It is disheartening that you appear to be so willing to go along with with whatever police do all in the name of safety. Do you really view the world in such a way that you can’t comprehend having a police force that does it’s job without beating suspects who are already in custody?
        pandaman 4y ago
        Obviously we are listening to different people because people say just that in this very same thread. Also I don't see Escadrones de la Muerte being a problem in Minneapolis or anywhere in the US for that matter, so what extrajudicial punishment you are taking about if you don't mind my asking?
        syzarian 4y ago
        Can you point who said in this thread that police should never use force? https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/2/3/22263444/new-chicago-police-torture-archive-details-acts-of-jon-burge-and-underlings https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/2/3/22263444/new-chicago-p... Note that Burge was arrested for lying to a jury during a civil lawsuit not for torture.
        pandaman 4y ago
        It appears to be you, who claimed that the police actions should be judged just like everyone else's here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35452473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35452473 Everyone else cannot really use force to arrest suspects and using force to prevent crime in progress is a very complicated matter for regular citizens too.
    - gordian-mind 4y ago
      Actually, one should expect to live in a society where you do not get randomly stabbed and die in the street. This means that the spirit of law should reflect the necessity that arresting criminals gets higher priority than prosecuting cops. In fact, by treating the two as the same, you commit a deep injustice, because a violent action does not get judged the same as its violent reaction.
      - syzarian 4y ago
        This means that the spirit of law should reflect the necessity that arresting criminals gets higher priority than prosecuting cops. I don’t think you understand the implications of what you just wrote. I thank you for stating this because it means we are in complete agreement. When a cop breaks the law they are in fact a criminal and, as you just stated, prosecuting criminals gets a high priority. We agree. Criminals ought to be prosecuted. I’m glad you are in favor of prosecuting police who break the law.
  - hobs 4y ago
    Ah yes, "I had an expectation that I could beat the hell out of people with no consequence when there was no call for violence." defense. No one is complaining when a cop uses force, they are complaining when a cop goes out of their way to murder, torture, and beat the shit out of normal citizenry who often put up little to no fight. They are complaining about when the cops drop flashbangs into baby's cribs and getting no charges. https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grena... If this is the conditions the police would like to return to, they should all go to jail.
    - gordian-mind 4y ago
      > If this is the conditions the police would like to return to, they should all go to jail. What a totally normal democratic thing to say.
      - syzarian 4y ago
        Obviously it was hyperbole. Instead of addressing the essence of the point made you counter with this. Your response says much about how strong the argument you responded to is.
    - steve76 4y ago
      [dead]
  - anoonmoose 4y ago
    I'm not going to apologize that they're no longer allowed to beat and murder people with impunity...as much/as frequently/as blatantly.

mc32 4y ago

Also politicians pass laws that citizens need to abide —they have specific carve outs for themselves allowing them to skirt laws (such as trading on insider information for members of Congress).

softjobs 4y ago
Or government-sponsored healthcare. But no #M4A for the proles, because that's SOCIALISM.

pydry 4y ago

This would probably be a lot more rare if the Camden NJ option of "fire and replace the whole department" were invoked for underperformance and/or corruption.

mjfl 4y ago

So there's a tradeoff. Are you saying you would rather live in a high crime state, with tech founders being stabbed to death, than let them have their way?

syzarian 4y ago
It should be expected to have a police force that enforces the laws while not allowing police to mete out non judicial punishment. It’s possible for police to do their job without needing to beat whomever they want, whenever they want, without fear of prosecution.
- mjfl 4y ago
  then do it. Will you and other citizens get in uniform?
  - syzarian 4y ago
    In case you aren’t aware, people can only hold a couple of jobs and one time and it’s ok for them to critique policies and actions of people in jobs they don’t have or ever intend to have. I can criticize a politician’s performance even though I don’t ever intend to become one. There is nothing illogical or hypocritical about this.
    - mjfl 4y ago
      in a democracy, if you point the finger at something and come to a bad conclusion, and then demand a ridiculous, unworkable solution, it is my duty as a fellow citizen to inform you and other voters that you are extremely wrong! That's what I'm trying to do. There's actually no super policeman hiding out there that can do what you say, and guarantee that across a population of over 300 million people there will never be violent interactions between the police and the citizenry. It is insane to suggest that.
      - lukebitts 4y ago

daltont 4y ago

Seem that such corruption starts very innocuously. I remember police officer acquaintances saying being a cop means you can always use that fact to never get a speeding ticket. I never felt that they were shady people I think they are likely decent people with a difficult job, but something about that fact did sort of bothered me. I would like to think that a police officer driving very dangerously or even drunk would not being to get away with it that easily.

tough 4y ago
There was a famous ghost rider in the cannonballs in the 70s or 80s', which would always win the race and never stay to socialise. After a few years of having retired, he came out being a cop.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]