4 ms·

> Being LGBTQ puts one at high risk of being homeless due to homophobia. ...Or, being LGBTQ puts you in a higher risk of being homeless due to underlying menta

> Being LGBTQ puts one at high risk of being homeless due to homophobia. ...Or, being LGBTQ puts you in a higher risk of being homeless due to underlying mental issues. We can never know.

DoreenMichele 4y ago
No, we can know because we have data on homeless teens who aren't runaways but are, in fact, throwaways. There was also a recent article on HN about the Catholic church -- which expects all priests to be celibate -- investigating gay dating but not straight dating priests to get rid of them. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35088695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35088695
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - foldr 4y ago
    The point is that people go from places where they were kicked out of home for being gay to LGBTQ friendly places like San Fransisco. So though you're entirely wrong about homophobia in the coastal US, this is largely irrelevant in any case. Also, you yourself are expressing a number of homophobic ideas in this thread. Could you please stop? It sucks that every HN thread that mentions LGBTQ people even in passing seems always to have to attract homophobic comments. Finally, you should read the comment that DoreenMichele linked to to see what she was getting at.
    - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
      Screaming "homophobia" the very second someone opposes your mental model of the world, is deliberate victimisation. I have no phobia of homosexuality. And I did read the comment.
      - DoreenMichele 4y ago
        You seem to have missed the flow of events here. I mentioned homophobia before you commented, not as some kind of characterization of you in specific. Other people chiming in to suggest you are homophobic or your comments are homophobic is not something I have control over. Acting like I am playing the victim card based on that is ridiculous.
      - foldr 4y ago
        I'm mentioning homophobia because you've suggested that being LGBTQ is often caused by an underlying mental illness (doubling down on this claim here: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=4gotunameagain https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=4gotunameagain), and because you've suggested that anyone who claims that homophobia is prevalent (in the 'coastal US', at least) is acting in bad faith and 'deliberately victimizing' themselves. Now you seem to be playing semantic games regarding the meaning of 'homophobia'. I won't try to change your mind here, but I think the majority of HNers will easily be able to see what I'm referring to. On top of all that, this whole discussion resulted from one bullet point in a comment on an article that literally has nothing to do with LGBTQ people or homophobia. And yet you feel the need to argue all of these points here.
        greatDEBONKER 4y ago
        [flagged]
        foldr 4y ago
        I disagree on this point. The idea that being gay or trans is a form of (or consequence of) mental illness is inherently homophobic. So is the idea that LGBTQ people 'deliberately victimize' themselves. There is no bad faith here. Remember that you my also be exposed to points of view that you don't like – such as the one I just expressed. Edit: I'd ask one question in response to your comment. You say that due to limitations of current scientific knowledge, 'one cannot claim without any certainty that LGBTQ is not caused by mental illness'. Ok, then can we be certain that being straight is not caused by mental illness? Which scientific studies could one cite to support or refute that claim?
sterlind 4y ago
what, are you saying that LGBTQ people are mentally ill? as in, our sexuality is caused by "underlying mental issues"? that's a revolting take, if so.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  Being transexual correlates greatly with other mental illnesses, and I do not think that is caused by externalities.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    I spent nine months being supportive to a trans youth. She had been horribly, horribly abused by her parents her entire life and the abuse ramped up when she came out as trans. I'm quite confident her mental health issues were due to the extreme abuse she suffered and not due to being trans per se.
    - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
      Ah so your n=1 of an already mentally ill person who came out as trans can be extrapolated to prove that transexualism and mental illness are not correlated, contrary to any published research. Makes perfect sense. You n=1 could also very well be interpreted as the extreme abuse being the source for the transexualism as well. Anyway with all the respect I will stop replying now.
      - DoreenMichele 4y ago
        Ah so your n=1 of an already mentally ill person who came out as trans can be extrapolated to prove that transexualism and mental illness are not correlated, contrary to any published research. No, that isn't my position at all. You want to cite some research so I can look at it, feel free. So far, you have not cited anything, just made general assertions and shared your opinion. My opinion differs from yours and I'm telling you part of why -- but only part of why.
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
No, we can know. We know that being LGBTQ doesn’t cause mental illness without first suffering from rejection of their identity. The vast majority of homeless youth are homeless because their families abandoned them for being LGBTQ. But, if an LGBTQ youth is raised in an accepting household, the chances of mental illness go way way down to about normal. We can even observe the suicide rate of transgender people, which is wildly high, become about the same as the normal populace if they are allowed to go through with transition without threats or violence.
- bart_spoon 4y ago
  > We can even observe the suicide rate of transgender people, which is wildly high, become about the same as the normal populace if they are allowed to go through with transition without threats or violence. Do you have a source for this? Because I’ve seen other conflicting claims that transitioning and trans acceptance doesn’t show much effect on suicide outcomes.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    There’s conflicting claims because there’s a lot of SEO spam about it. Some recent studies: (2022) “ In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20 years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up.” https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... (2021) “ Data were collected as part of a 2020 survey of 34,759 lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning youth aged 13–24, including 11,914 transgender or nonbinary youth… Use of GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression (adjusted odds ratio [aOR] = .73, p < .001) and seriously considering suicide (aOR = .74, p < .001) compared to those who wanted GAHT but did not receive it. For youth under age 18, GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression (aOR = .61, p < .01) and of a past-year suicide attempt (aOR = .62, p < .05).” https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00568-1/fulltext#secsectitle0010 https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00568-1/full...

> Being LGBTQ puts one at high risk of being homeless due to homophobia. ...Or, being LGBTQ puts you in a higher risk of being homeless due to underlying mental issues. We can never know.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

No, we can know because we have data on homeless teens who aren't runaways but are, in fact, throwaways. There was also a recent article on HN about the Catholic church -- which expects all priests to be celibate -- investigating gay dating but not straight dating priests to get rid of them. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35088695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35088695

4gotunameagain 4y ago
[flagged]
- foldr 4y ago
  The point is that people go from places where they were kicked out of home for being gay to LGBTQ friendly places like San Fransisco. So though you're entirely wrong about homophobia in the coastal US, this is largely irrelevant in any case. Also, you yourself are expressing a number of homophobic ideas in this thread. Could you please stop? It sucks that every HN thread that mentions LGBTQ people even in passing seems always to have to attract homophobic comments. Finally, you should read the comment that DoreenMichele linked to to see what she was getting at.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    Screaming "homophobia" the very second someone opposes your mental model of the world, is deliberate victimisation. I have no phobia of homosexuality. And I did read the comment.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      You seem to have missed the flow of events here. I mentioned homophobia before you commented, not as some kind of characterization of you in specific. Other people chiming in to suggest you are homophobic or your comments are homophobic is not something I have control over. Acting like I am playing the victim card based on that is ridiculous.
    - foldr 4y ago
      I'm mentioning homophobia because you've suggested that being LGBTQ is often caused by an underlying mental illness (doubling down on this claim here: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=4gotunameagain https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=4gotunameagain), and because you've suggested that anyone who claims that homophobia is prevalent (in the 'coastal US', at least) is acting in bad faith and 'deliberately victimizing' themselves. Now you seem to be playing semantic games regarding the meaning of 'homophobia'. I won't try to change your mind here, but I think the majority of HNers will easily be able to see what I'm referring to. On top of all that, this whole discussion resulted from one bullet point in a comment on an article that literally has nothing to do with LGBTQ people or homophobia. And yet you feel the need to argue all of these points here.
      - greatDEBONKER 4y ago
        [flagged]
        foldr 4y ago
        I disagree on this point. The idea that being gay or trans is a form of (or consequence of) mental illness is inherently homophobic. So is the idea that LGBTQ people 'deliberately victimize' themselves. There is no bad faith here. Remember that you my also be exposed to points of view that you don't like – such as the one I just expressed. Edit: I'd ask one question in response to your comment. You say that due to limitations of current scientific knowledge, 'one cannot claim without any certainty that LGBTQ is not caused by mental illness'. Ok, then can we be certain that being straight is not caused by mental illness? Which scientific studies could one cite to support or refute that claim?

sterlind 4y ago

what, are you saying that LGBTQ people are mentally ill? as in, our sexuality is caused by "underlying mental issues"? that's a revolting take, if so.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
4gotunameagain 4y ago
Being transexual correlates greatly with other mental illnesses, and I do not think that is caused by externalities.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  I spent nine months being supportive to a trans youth. She had been horribly, horribly abused by her parents her entire life and the abuse ramped up when she came out as trans. I'm quite confident her mental health issues were due to the extreme abuse she suffered and not due to being trans per se.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    Ah so your n=1 of an already mentally ill person who came out as trans can be extrapolated to prove that transexualism and mental illness are not correlated, contrary to any published research. Makes perfect sense. You n=1 could also very well be interpreted as the extreme abuse being the source for the transexualism as well. Anyway with all the respect I will stop replying now.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      Ah so your n=1 of an already mentally ill person who came out as trans can be extrapolated to prove that transexualism and mental illness are not correlated, contrary to any published research. No, that isn't my position at all. You want to cite some research so I can look at it, feel free. So far, you have not cited anything, just made general assertions and shared your opinion. My opinion differs from yours and I'm telling you part of why -- but only part of why.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

No, we can know. We know that being LGBTQ doesn’t cause mental illness without first suffering from rejection of their identity. The vast majority of homeless youth are homeless because their families abandoned them for being LGBTQ. But, if an LGBTQ youth is raised in an accepting household, the chances of mental illness go way way down to about normal. We can even observe the suicide rate of transgender people, which is wildly high, become about the same as the normal populace if they are allowed to go through with transition without threats or violence.

bart_spoon 4y ago
> We can even observe the suicide rate of transgender people, which is wildly high, become about the same as the normal populace if they are allowed to go through with transition without threats or violence. Do you have a source for this? Because I’ve seen other conflicting claims that transitioning and trans acceptance doesn’t show much effect on suicide outcomes.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  There’s conflicting claims because there’s a lot of SEO spam about it. Some recent studies: (2022) “ In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20 years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up.” https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... (2021) “ Data were collected as part of a 2020 survey of 34,759 lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning youth aged 13–24, including 11,914 transgender or nonbinary youth… Use of GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression (adjusted odds ratio [aOR] = .73, p < .001) and seriously considering suicide (aOR = .74, p < .001) compared to those who wanted GAHT but did not receive it. For youth under age 18, GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression (aOR = .61, p < .01) and of a past-year suicide attempt (aOR = .62, p < .05).” https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00568-1/fulltext#secsectitle0010 https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21)00568-1/full...