7 ms·

I just want to know why do people let the current status quo be in SF? I mean hearing cases like these makes you lean to the right even though you disagree with

I just want to know why do people let the current status quo be in SF? I mean hearing cases like these makes you lean to the right even though you disagree with them, but when you look what the left is doing, you are left with no alternative..

subsistence234 4y ago
emperor's new clothes.
millzlane 4y ago
Why would hearing those make you lean to the right? When did putting violent criminals in jail become a "right leaning" thing?
- brightball 4y ago
  Nothing really changed from a right leaning perspective. It’s been my perception that not putting all sorts of criminals in jail has become a left leaning thing over the last decade or so. The push to shut down private prisons, especially in California for example. By proxy that made it a right leaning thing. I’ve heard my more right wing friends suggest that a big Democratic donor has been specifically backing DAs who do this type of thing. I have no references for it at all, but I know that Desantis even mentioned it in the press while discussing the Trump charges in NY.
  - harimau777 4y ago
    Opposing private prisons doesn't imply opposing prisons in general. That's a strawman.
    - alienicecream 4y ago
      Logically no, but really that's what they want.
    - brightball 4y ago
      Shutting down private prisons without replacing them with public prisons leaves you more limited on your capacity to convict people and keep them off the street though. Have the private prisons been replaced?
      - harimau777 4y ago
        I would support a law that outlawed private prisons and provided funding for replacing/nationalizing them. I think that many on the left would support that.
        brightball 4y ago
        I think that makes perfect sense. It just doesn’t appear to be what’s happened so it’s just created a new problem.
- chrissnell 4y ago
  This became a "right" thing when the Democratic Party--or more succinctly, the people they put on the ballots in liberal cities--have moved so hard to the left that they are unrecognizable to normal classically liberal Americans like myself. When these folks are running in the general election, they say all the right things to keep the votes from normal traditional Democrats who appear to have no idea who they're actually voting for. Once they're in, they go completely radical and do so relentlessly. Some of these DAs appear to be the worst, most evil, least-caring public officials I've ever observed in my life.
  - graderjs 4y ago
    I'm familiar with that argument--but my suspicion is the whole "Dem cities are havens of crime" trope, is masking the true issue--in effect creating partisan polarization that distracts and outrages folks, in place of actual clarity, and results that shift the status quo in a more favorable direction (which, by virtue of such change not occuring, seems reasonable to conclude that said change must be imposing on some powerful interest--but what interest that could be, that wants there to be crime, I cannot fathom). Surely this can't be the blanket cause?
    - chrissnell 4y ago
      It's partisan but only because of the state of the parties. Democrat-run Austin Texas used to be heaven in the 1970s and 80s. Then radicals took over and somehow got elected and now you have a total sh*tshow.
    - insanejudge 4y ago
      The data in SF is pretty clear (https://www.sfdistrictattorney.org/policy/data-dashboards/ https://www.sfdistrictattorney.org/policy/data-dashboards/ , "District Attorney Actions on Arrests Presented" for example), and as the trend appears to be everywhere else, arrests are down and rates of charges filed are similar or even higher. In the SF case rates have been higher in the last two years than all of the previous data there back to 2011. Similar story in LA where filing rates did not appreciably change.
  - 4y ago
- brk 4y ago
  Roughly 8 years ago. Trying not to politicize this, but the deliberate act of not prosecuting certain crimes has been a movement driven by the left in recent years. And it's not going well for society at large.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    Is there actual data for this or is it simply a feeling? Everything I've been able to find indicates that crime statistics are trending downwards and are already much lower than historical levels.
    - viridian 4y ago
      Crime trends are well below the late 80's early 90's peak, but are significantly up since covid, which is a reversal of the trend downwards we have seen. People generally are uncomfortable with crime being up 50% in 3 years, even if it's still down 30% from 1991.
      - Jochim 4y ago
        > People generally are uncomfortable with crime being up 50% in 3 years, even if it's still down 30% from 1991. Where did the 50% number come from? Q1 2023 appears to be down nearly 10% on Q1 2022 and 25% compared with Q1 2017. 2022 as a whole was lower in most areas than 2017 with 9,000 fewer incidents. [0] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...
        viridian 4y ago
        Numbers are nationwide. My city's crime rates have doubled since March 2020. SF could be an outlier, but based on the melancholia in this thread, people may just not be reporting crime as much any more in SF. Underreporting seems like a huge problem, even here with our blooming crime rate. I've had to call the police twice since covid, once because by house caught a stray bullet from a car chase/shootout, and the cops said that the only people who bothered to report were myself and the elementary school down the street. The folks in the other house that took rounds had no desire to interact with the police.
- chmod600 4y ago
  When a city is overwhelmingly Democrat, as most cities are, you'd expect them to elect Democrats. But the people who get in office are actually leftist radicals. It's a weird social phenomenon. Groups based on trait X will tend to choose the most radical and forceful members for trait X as their leaders. To the point where trait X is actually warped beyond recognition.
Jochim 4y ago
Because the status quo has lead to a steady reduction in crime. Long term statistics are way down, and so are most short term statistics as well: 2017-2022 [0]: * ~9,000 fewer incidents in total. * Rape halved. * Robberies decreased to 2/3 of 2017 numbers. * Burglary/Motor vehicle theft increased but Larceny theft decreased by more than both combined. Q1 2017/2023 [0]: * ~4,000 fewer incidents in total. * Only Motor vehicle theft and Arson were slightly up on 2017 levels. Q1 2022/2023 [0]: * Total incidents down by 9.7% * Burglary down by 11.2% * Motor vehicle theft down by 8.5% * Larceny theft down by 12% * Assaults did increase by 2.2% * As did Robberies by 13.6% [0] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...
- refurb 4y ago
  Reported crimes, not actual crimes. My car was broken into 3 times in 10 years. I reported it once because “what difference does it make?”
- lr4444lr 4y ago
  "With the exception of homicides" See, that's the thing about crime stats: they only tell you successful convictions. They do not factor in police inactivity, people not reporting, police not filing, plea bargains to misdemeanors, DAs not prosecuting, cases getting dismissed. Homicides however mean a cadaver is involved, and that can't be policy-washed: it is there in the morgue on file with the medical examiner.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    > "With the exception of homicides" Homicides are included. If you had kept reading you would've seen that the next sentence is: > Homicides reflect the number of victims and are not based on the incidents. It appears that homicides have generally been below, and haven't risen above, 2017 levels. > See, that's the thing about crime stats: they only tell you successful convictions. It's not mentioned specifically but it's implied that these are reported incidents rather than convictions: > Incidents that are unfounded or unsubstantiated have also been excluded from the dataset.

subsistence234 4y ago

emperor's new clothes.

millzlane 4y ago

Why would hearing those make you lean to the right? When did putting violent criminals in jail become a "right leaning" thing?

brightball 4y ago
Nothing really changed from a right leaning perspective. It’s been my perception that not putting all sorts of criminals in jail has become a left leaning thing over the last decade or so. The push to shut down private prisons, especially in California for example. By proxy that made it a right leaning thing. I’ve heard my more right wing friends suggest that a big Democratic donor has been specifically backing DAs who do this type of thing. I have no references for it at all, but I know that Desantis even mentioned it in the press while discussing the Trump charges in NY.
- harimau777 4y ago
  Opposing private prisons doesn't imply opposing prisons in general. That's a strawman.
  - alienicecream 4y ago
    Logically no, but really that's what they want.
  - brightball 4y ago
    Shutting down private prisons without replacing them with public prisons leaves you more limited on your capacity to convict people and keep them off the street though. Have the private prisons been replaced?
    - harimau777 4y ago
      I would support a law that outlawed private prisons and provided funding for replacing/nationalizing them. I think that many on the left would support that.
      - brightball 4y ago
        I think that makes perfect sense. It just doesn’t appear to be what’s happened so it’s just created a new problem.
chrissnell 4y ago
This became a "right" thing when the Democratic Party--or more succinctly, the people they put on the ballots in liberal cities--have moved so hard to the left that they are unrecognizable to normal classically liberal Americans like myself. When these folks are running in the general election, they say all the right things to keep the votes from normal traditional Democrats who appear to have no idea who they're actually voting for. Once they're in, they go completely radical and do so relentlessly. Some of these DAs appear to be the worst, most evil, least-caring public officials I've ever observed in my life.
- graderjs 4y ago
  I'm familiar with that argument--but my suspicion is the whole "Dem cities are havens of crime" trope, is masking the true issue--in effect creating partisan polarization that distracts and outrages folks, in place of actual clarity, and results that shift the status quo in a more favorable direction (which, by virtue of such change not occuring, seems reasonable to conclude that said change must be imposing on some powerful interest--but what interest that could be, that wants there to be crime, I cannot fathom). Surely this can't be the blanket cause?
  - chrissnell 4y ago
    It's partisan but only because of the state of the parties. Democrat-run Austin Texas used to be heaven in the 1970s and 80s. Then radicals took over and somehow got elected and now you have a total sh*tshow.
  - insanejudge 4y ago
    The data in SF is pretty clear (https://www.sfdistrictattorney.org/policy/data-dashboards/ https://www.sfdistrictattorney.org/policy/data-dashboards/ , "District Attorney Actions on Arrests Presented" for example), and as the trend appears to be everywhere else, arrests are down and rates of charges filed are similar or even higher. In the SF case rates have been higher in the last two years than all of the previous data there back to 2011. Similar story in LA where filing rates did not appreciably change.
- 4y ago
brk 4y ago
Roughly 8 years ago. Trying not to politicize this, but the deliberate act of not prosecuting certain crimes has been a movement driven by the left in recent years. And it's not going well for society at large.
- Jochim 4y ago
  Is there actual data for this or is it simply a feeling? Everything I've been able to find indicates that crime statistics are trending downwards and are already much lower than historical levels.
  - viridian 4y ago
    Crime trends are well below the late 80's early 90's peak, but are significantly up since covid, which is a reversal of the trend downwards we have seen. People generally are uncomfortable with crime being up 50% in 3 years, even if it's still down 30% from 1991.
    - Jochim 4y ago
      > People generally are uncomfortable with crime being up 50% in 3 years, even if it's still down 30% from 1991. Where did the 50% number come from? Q1 2023 appears to be down nearly 10% on Q1 2022 and 25% compared with Q1 2017. 2022 as a whole was lower in most areas than 2017 with 9,000 fewer incidents. [0] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...
      - viridian 4y ago
        Numbers are nationwide. My city's crime rates have doubled since March 2020. SF could be an outlier, but based on the melancholia in this thread, people may just not be reporting crime as much any more in SF. Underreporting seems like a huge problem, even here with our blooming crime rate. I've had to call the police twice since covid, once because by house caught a stray bullet from a car chase/shootout, and the cops said that the only people who bothered to report were myself and the elementary school down the street. The folks in the other house that took rounds had no desire to interact with the police.
chmod600 4y ago
When a city is overwhelmingly Democrat, as most cities are, you'd expect them to elect Democrats. But the people who get in office are actually leftist radicals. It's a weird social phenomenon. Groups based on trait X will tend to choose the most radical and forceful members for trait X as their leaders. To the point where trait X is actually warped beyond recognition.

Jochim 4y ago

Because the status quo has lead to a steady reduction in crime. Long term statistics are way down, and so are most short term statistics as well: 2017-2022 [0]: * ~9,000 fewer incidents in total. * Rape halved. * Robberies decreased to 2/3 of 2017 numbers. * Burglary/Motor vehicle theft increased but Larceny theft decreased by more than both combined. Q1 2017/2023 [0]: * ~4,000 fewer incidents in total. * Only Motor vehicle theft and Arson were slightly up on 2017 levels. Q1 2022/2023 [0]: * Total incidents down by 9.7% * Burglary down by 11.2% * Motor vehicle theft down by 8.5% * Larceny theft down by 12% * Assaults did increase by 2.2% * As did Robberies by 13.6% [0] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...

refurb 4y ago
Reported crimes, not actual crimes. My car was broken into 3 times in 10 years. I reported it once because “what difference does it make?”
lr4444lr 4y ago
"With the exception of homicides" See, that's the thing about crime stats: they only tell you successful convictions. They do not factor in police inactivity, people not reporting, police not filing, plea bargains to misdemeanors, DAs not prosecuting, cases getting dismissed. Homicides however mean a cadaver is involved, and that can't be policy-washed: it is there in the morgue on file with the medical examiner.
- Jochim 4y ago
  > "With the exception of homicides" Homicides are included. If you had kept reading you would've seen that the next sentence is: > Homicides reflect the number of victims and are not based on the incidents. It appears that homicides have generally been below, and haven't risen above, 2017 levels. > See, that's the thing about crime stats: they only tell you successful convictions. It's not mentioned specifically but it's implied that these are reported incidents rather than convictions: > Incidents that are unfounded or unsubstantiated have also been excluded from the dataset.