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Another problem is the definition of "ad". Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? Is product placement in movie an ad? How and who will determine if this is a

Another problem is the definition of "ad". Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? Is product placement in movie an ad? How and who will determine if this is and ad or not?

giraffe_lady 4y ago
"did the company selling the thing pay for any part of it" seems like a good enough place to start.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  Even that isn't as clear-cut as it seems. It isn't just the company that you need to include. Does your company produce ads for the company that produces Proprietary Toy and get money if they sell more products? Does your company supply batteries for Battery Operated Proprietary Toy? Does your store sell either Proprietary Toy? And so on.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    It really is though. > Does your company produce ads There it is, don't do that. All these other questions are also just "yes." You're looking for nuance where there isn't any. Sponsorship is ads, product placement is ads, giving free product to influencer to review is ads. There are certainly edge cases some of them likely to be thorny but none of the things either of us has mentioned so far are them.
    - joenot443 4y ago
      I think there’s absolutely nuance here and pretending “make it illegal for kids to see ads” is a simple or even attainable solution is a bit naive I think. What about product placement? Nearly every movie in Hollywood from the past 40 years has some level of product placement, so under this new law we’ll either go back and edit it out or slap an R rating on it? How about arena ads or billboards? Special AR headsets for teens which will block ads from sight? It’s a silly hypothetical, of course, but you did just say that it’s a hypothetical without nuance. I think it’s easier to imagine a world where advertising is outlaws entirely than one where we specifically shield it only for those underage.
      - giraffe_lady 4y ago
        On further reflection it may effectively ban advertising completely and this makes me like the idea even more.
        joenot443 4y ago
        I’d be on board with that!
ok_dad 4y ago
Anytime someone exchanges cash, goods, or services to promote a product or service, and then repeat this inspection up the chain of shell companies! > Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? not enough context, maybe > Is product placement in movie an ad? yes, clearly > How and who will determine if this is and ad or not? Probably some corporate compliance drones and underfunded government stooges.
- exitb 4y ago
  Doesn't that include most children-directed media, as it inevitably ends up being an ad for related merchandise?
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Perhaps, and I'm fine with that. Children's media shouldn't be funded by corporate advertising directed at the children, period. I don't care what kind of sledgehammer that takes to the ad industry, I care about the children's well-being. Next, let's ban all advertising, is what I'm thinking.
    - exitb 4y ago
      I like to play the Pokemon card game with my son. Yes - his interest in that corporate franchise leads us to some spending, but I don't find that excessive for the benefit we get from it, which goes beyond fun, as he learns strategy, focus, pattern application, counting etc. I don't think my son would be better off without that in his life. I also don't find it unreasonable for the corporation to profit of the product they provide.
      - ok_dad 4y ago
        How does banning advertising, even all advertising, prevent the company from making Pokemon card games? I assume you mean the mobile game, which is very predatory with microtransactions and such (check their recent price increases for shit you can use to win the game). I would be fine with that particular type of system ("freemium", "loot boxes", "pay to win") being banned and eliminated from existence. Pokemon existed long before all of the current bullshit and something similar will be around even without all the ad-driven nonsense. I have to go to sleep, but I'm militant in my hate for advertising. I would burn the entire idea of advertising to cinders.
AlecSchueler 4y ago
Aren't there already legal definitins for adverts? They're regulated today. Edit: In the UK advertising regulations are handled by the Advertising Standards Authority who already have rules specific to advertising to children. https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/advertising-codes-of-practice https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/advertising-cod...
- harvey9 4y ago
  Problem with the ASA is that they can only react to advertising that's out there and by the time they do, the campaign is usually done.
  - AlecSchueler 4y ago
    I didn't mean to suggest the issues were already solved, only that there's already precedent for defining advertising in law as well as regulating adverts aimed at children.
figassis 4y ago
Probably yes, so movies for kids should not have them I guess.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
Not a problem. This question has already been asked and is settled. Programmers tend get caught up with definitions and "loopholes". Laws don't care. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1494:_Insurance https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1494:_Insurance
- bumby 4y ago
  To be generous to the OP, they may not be looking for "hacks" or "loopholes" but rather clarity. Vague laws tend to be bad laws.

Another problem is the definition of "ad". Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? Is product placement in movie an ad? How and who will determine if this is and ad or not?

giraffe_lady 4y ago

"did the company selling the thing pay for any part of it" seems like a good enough place to start.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Even that isn't as clear-cut as it seems. It isn't just the company that you need to include. Does your company produce ads for the company that produces Proprietary Toy and get money if they sell more products? Does your company supply batteries for Battery Operated Proprietary Toy? Does your store sell either Proprietary Toy? And so on.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  It really is though. > Does your company produce ads There it is, don't do that. All these other questions are also just "yes." You're looking for nuance where there isn't any. Sponsorship is ads, product placement is ads, giving free product to influencer to review is ads. There are certainly edge cases some of them likely to be thorny but none of the things either of us has mentioned so far are them.
  - joenot443 4y ago
    I think there’s absolutely nuance here and pretending “make it illegal for kids to see ads” is a simple or even attainable solution is a bit naive I think. What about product placement? Nearly every movie in Hollywood from the past 40 years has some level of product placement, so under this new law we’ll either go back and edit it out or slap an R rating on it? How about arena ads or billboards? Special AR headsets for teens which will block ads from sight? It’s a silly hypothetical, of course, but you did just say that it’s a hypothetical without nuance. I think it’s easier to imagine a world where advertising is outlaws entirely than one where we specifically shield it only for those underage.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      On further reflection it may effectively ban advertising completely and this makes me like the idea even more.
      - joenot443 4y ago
        I’d be on board with that!

ok_dad 4y ago

Anytime someone exchanges cash, goods, or services to promote a product or service, and then repeat this inspection up the chain of shell companies! > Is kid playing with fancy toys is an ad? not enough context, maybe > Is product placement in movie an ad? yes, clearly > How and who will determine if this is and ad or not? Probably some corporate compliance drones and underfunded government stooges.

exitb 4y ago
Doesn't that include most children-directed media, as it inevitably ends up being an ad for related merchandise?
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Perhaps, and I'm fine with that. Children's media shouldn't be funded by corporate advertising directed at the children, period. I don't care what kind of sledgehammer that takes to the ad industry, I care about the children's well-being. Next, let's ban all advertising, is what I'm thinking.
  - exitb 4y ago
    I like to play the Pokemon card game with my son. Yes - his interest in that corporate franchise leads us to some spending, but I don't find that excessive for the benefit we get from it, which goes beyond fun, as he learns strategy, focus, pattern application, counting etc. I don't think my son would be better off without that in his life. I also don't find it unreasonable for the corporation to profit of the product they provide.
    - ok_dad 4y ago
      How does banning advertising, even all advertising, prevent the company from making Pokemon card games? I assume you mean the mobile game, which is very predatory with microtransactions and such (check their recent price increases for shit you can use to win the game). I would be fine with that particular type of system ("freemium", "loot boxes", "pay to win") being banned and eliminated from existence. Pokemon existed long before all of the current bullshit and something similar will be around even without all the ad-driven nonsense. I have to go to sleep, but I'm militant in my hate for advertising. I would burn the entire idea of advertising to cinders.

AlecSchueler 4y ago

Aren't there already legal definitins for adverts? They're regulated today. Edit: In the UK advertising regulations are handled by the Advertising Standards Authority who already have rules specific to advertising to children. https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/advertising-codes-of-practice https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/advertising-cod...

harvey9 4y ago
Problem with the ASA is that they can only react to advertising that's out there and by the time they do, the campaign is usually done.
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  I didn't mean to suggest the issues were already solved, only that there's already precedent for defining advertising in law as well as regulating adverts aimed at children.

figassis 4y ago

Probably yes, so movies for kids should not have them I guess.

diffeomorphism 4y ago

Not a problem. This question has already been asked and is settled. Programmers tend get caught up with definitions and "loopholes". Laws don't care. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1494:_Insurance https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1494:_Insurance

bumby 4y ago
To be generous to the OP, they may not be looking for "hacks" or "loopholes" but rather clarity. Vague laws tend to be bad laws.