5 ms·
Americans clearly have very low expectations for their standard of living. As demonstrated by the amount of insane 'actually the murder rate isn't that bad' co
by ronanyeah 3y ago
Americans clearly have very low expectations for their standard of living.
As demonstrated by the amount of insane 'actually the murder rate isn't that bad' comments in this thread.
- RGamma 3y agoThe decades of internal and self-violence are quickly forgotten when something happens to a tech bro. I simply can't take that country seriously anymore...
- astrange 3y agoEvery city in America is so much incredibly safer than it was in 1990 that nobody old enough to remember that is going to be bothered by much of anything. (That is, if you think now's bad, you should've seen it then.)
- ronanyeah 3y ago'actually the murder rate isn't that bad'
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoBad is relative. Bad compared to perfect European utopias, yes. Bad compared to the same city 30-40 years ago, no.
- bombcar 3y agoNobody really cares about the murder rate. What they care about is being murdered. A city where gangs are killing each other off but never bother normal people will feel much safer than a city where a comparatively few people are killed but it’s from the greater pool of everyone.
- kelnos 3y agoJust because something used to be so much worse, it doesn't mean that the current state is good.
- Jochim 3y agoThe general criticisms are that the current state is worse than it used to be though. That's simply not borne out by the statistics. Long term trends have been steadily down, and even in the short term: 2017-2022 [0]: * ~9,000 fewer incidents in total. * Rape halved. * Robberies 2/3 of 2017. * Burglary/Motor vehicle theft increased but Larceny theft decreased by more than both combined. Q1 2017/2023 [0]: * ~4,000 fewer incidents in total. * Only Motor vehicle theft and Arson were slightly up on 2017 levels. Q1 2022/2023 [0]: * Total incidents down by 9.7% * Burglary down by 11.2% * Motor vehicle theft down by 8.5% * Larceny theft down by 12% * Assaults did increase by 2.2% * As did Robberies by 13.6% [0] https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...
- megaman821 3y agoThese are all too gameable. Some even go against the grain of common sense. You think if you include porch pirates that theft is down, or that everyone knows there is no point in even reporting it. Murder is the only useful thing to track as a proxy for other crimes, but even that can make things seem better than they are due to better medical interventions.
- bombcar 3y agoThings like hospitals tracking gunshots and stabbing is harder to game, but a city can be relatively nonviolent and still feel like an absolute shithole of theft is petty and common.
- thegaulofthem 3y agoWe should all be incredibly skeptical of the claim. For the 2020-2021 years our rates in Charleston were returning to the “90s Crack Epidemic” rates. Much like other commenters in the thread, I’ve had a man threaten to “cut my mother effing throat” in broad daylight in front of a dozen bystanders. Thankfully, he turned tail once I drew a handgun and no one died that day. Police showed up 45 minutes later and were of no use, so why bother reported the three times I’ve had guns pointed at me in traffic since 2020? When police response times are at or above the hour mark and the best you’ll get is an “oh that sucks man, need a report for insurance?” people stop reporting crimes. Now the politicians get to pretend crime is “better”.
- grumple 3y agoThis is certifiably untrue. Philadelphia, for example, just had our highest 3 year murder period ever. Additionally, we should really compare this to previous eras, not just the other highest crime periods you could name. We're at triple the homicides of the 50s and 60s, for example, and our population has declined since then.
- viridian 3y agoNationwide crime is up 50% in the past 3 years, and at about 70% of the 1991 all time high. It's safer than our absolute peak for sure, but this historical reversal should be very concerning.
- Hoyadonis 3y agoAmerica is a land of extremes. We actually have relatively high standard of living thanks to extremely high wages, which allow us to live lives of relative luxury. We also have high wealth inequality and tolerate many horrors - some unfathomable to other developed countries (e.g. gun deaths).
- ronanyeah 3y agoIt is possible to tolerate wealth inequality, while not tolerating mentally ill drug addicts terrorising the public.
- somewhereoutth 3y agoArguably the latter is a symptom of the former. So there are broadly 2 approaches to tackle the problem - reduce inequality, or use draconian measures to control the people who got the wrong end of the inequality stick.
- moonchrome 3y agoPlenty of drug addicts and drug related organized crime is the rise in western Europe, especially in major port hubs.
- Jochim 3y agoPlaces with lower wealth inequality seem to have fewer mentally ill drug addicts terrorising the public. Putting aside arguments of social responsibility and taking a purely self-interested perspective, it's typically cheaper and more effective to provide for these people than it is to lock them up. When there's nothing to take away, enforcement doesn't provide any deterrent and frequently leads to an escalation of behaviour instead.
- amrocha 3y agoIt's possible to tolerate the cause without tolerating the consequences?
- throw_m239339 3y agoAmericans have low expectations when it comes to the acceptable level of violence in a country that has third world levels of crime. And in Europe, many politicians wants their own citizens to live in what the former perceive as the ideal society? Just no. Even being rich in US doesn't protect anyone from being murdered randomly...
- louwrentius 3y agoI’m going to bet a lot third world countries are safer
- TuringNYC 3y ago>> Americans clearly have very low expectations for their standard of living. One SF startup I saw had executives mostly working remotely in Sonoma county (wine country) or Marin County (mountains and beautiful views) or Atherton. HR declared themselves remote also. For office visits, many Uber-ed in or drove in, conveniently avoiding all the chaos outside. The median listing home price in Atherton, CA was $10.4M in February 2023. Unfortunately, it is easy to ignore the other half when decision-makers in power living in some of the most beautiful places on earth. Low-level workers were the ones trekking into SF daily and dealing with reality.
- bloak 3y agoIsn't there a Father Ted episode in which they're trying to lure him from rural Ireland to somewhere in the USA with "it's really not that bad: last month there was a something-percent fall in the number of drive-by shootings"?
- sidibe 3y agoWell I was surprised by the number of murders so far this year. It's less than my much smaller hometown that isn't considered particularly unsafe, while on here everyone acts like SF is hell. There's no question there's a huge homeless problem in SF but the number of murders there are really low compared to a southern or midwestern city.
- dang 3y agoNationalistic flamewar will get you banned here. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for, so please don't post like this here—regardless of how other commenters are behaving. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ronanyeah 3y ago> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. I think you are violating this guideline.