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For Zurich this might be true, but there are definitely examples of European cities where the safety debate happens regularly (at least in my personal circles).

For Zurich this might be true, but there are definitely examples of European cities where the safety debate happens regularly (at least in my personal circles). Brussels and Paris come to mind with their explicit no-go zones and Naples and Rome are notorious for their pickpockets. Even Honest Guide[1], which is the main guide for my city, has half of its' videos dedicated to scams. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/@HONESTGUIDE https://www.youtube.com/@HONESTGUIDE

thaumasiotes 4y ago
The claim isn't that European cities are safe. The claim is that you don't see arguments over whether safe cities are safe.
- davidkuennen 4y ago
  Never thought about it like this. Yeah, nobody would question the safety of many European cities even if something like this were to happen. It would be considered a freak incident.
bjornsing 4y ago
Here in Sweden there’s very intensive public debate on the subject.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  It was just a few years ago that bien-pensants denounced Trump for repeating what others (including the authorities [1]) had said about no-go zones in Europe. I have since observed a slow but steady change in the European zeitgeist for what is happening, with a perceptible acceleration since Trump's departure from the White House; presumably, it is less embarrassing to acknowledge that he might have been right when he is no longer in office. [1] <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/french-police-angry-at-no-go-zones-after-petrol-bomb-attack-idUSKCN12A1WS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/fr...> <http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-...>, for example
acatton 4y ago
To be fair, most of the scams exposed by Honest Guide are targeted at tourists, not locals. I'm not saying this is a good thing, as tourism is a big contributor to Prague's economy, and I don't like when people are getting scammed. But this doesn't affect much the average Tomáš' life.
kkwteh 4y ago
I've lived in Paris for over four years now, and I have no idea what these no-go zones people are talking about. I've never heard anyone in Paris talk about them. There is no neighborhood in Paris that I would flat out refuse to go to, even though there definitely a very small number of sketchy areas where I would be more on guard (the Barbès metro comes to mind). There is nothing here that is near as bad as the misery on display in the Tenderloin, or Skid Row. I have also lived five years in San Francisco, and Paris overall feels much safer to me.
- joshgev 4y ago
  Seconded, lived in the Bay Area for years and Paris for two years so far. Not even vaguely the same ballpark.
- VHRanger 4y ago
  As a Canadian, northern parts of Paris, (Seine-St.-Denis and some parts of the 18th) are really sketchy. Maybe not like some parts of American cities (fewer guns to start), but the 18th put me on guard in a way you'd never see in Canada. No Go Zones are complete nonsense, but there's a gradient of safety.
  - nebula8804 4y ago
    What parts of the 18th? It is a historic place with artsy locales and historically was the place where all the raunchy sex shops were pushed. Are you referring to the Barbes Rochechouart area?
    - VHRanger 4y ago
      The Stalingrad-La Chapelle area, mainly. Yeah other parts of the 18th are really nice. Also to note, I make it a point to avoid, say, inland Baltimore or South Detroit. Whereas I did go to North Paris, which speaks the difference. But compared to Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto Paris is certainly still a level below in safety. I imagine the Japanese would say the same of Canada.

thaumasiotes 4y ago

The claim isn't that European cities are safe. The claim is that you don't see arguments over whether safe cities are safe.

davidkuennen 4y ago
Never thought about it like this. Yeah, nobody would question the safety of many European cities even if something like this were to happen. It would be considered a freak incident.

bjornsing 4y ago

Here in Sweden there’s very intensive public debate on the subject.

TMWNN 4y ago
It was just a few years ago that bien-pensants denounced Trump for repeating what others (including the authorities [1]) had said about no-go zones in Europe. I have since observed a slow but steady change in the European zeitgeist for what is happening, with a perceptible acceleration since Trump's departure from the White House; presumably, it is less embarrassing to acknowledge that he might have been right when he is no longer in office. [1] <https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/french-police-angry-at-no-go-zones-after-petrol-bomb-attack-idUSKCN12A1WS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-security-police/fr...> <http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-...>, for example

acatton 4y ago

To be fair, most of the scams exposed by Honest Guide are targeted at tourists, not locals. I'm not saying this is a good thing, as tourism is a big contributor to Prague's economy, and I don't like when people are getting scammed. But this doesn't affect much the average Tomáš' life.

kkwteh 4y ago

I've lived in Paris for over four years now, and I have no idea what these no-go zones people are talking about. I've never heard anyone in Paris talk about them. There is no neighborhood in Paris that I would flat out refuse to go to, even though there definitely a very small number of sketchy areas where I would be more on guard (the Barbès metro comes to mind). There is nothing here that is near as bad as the misery on display in the Tenderloin, or Skid Row. I have also lived five years in San Francisco, and Paris overall feels much safer to me.

joshgev 4y ago
Seconded, lived in the Bay Area for years and Paris for two years so far. Not even vaguely the same ballpark.
VHRanger 4y ago
As a Canadian, northern parts of Paris, (Seine-St.-Denis and some parts of the 18th) are really sketchy. Maybe not like some parts of American cities (fewer guns to start), but the 18th put me on guard in a way you'd never see in Canada. No Go Zones are complete nonsense, but there's a gradient of safety.
- nebula8804 4y ago
  What parts of the 18th? It is a historic place with artsy locales and historically was the place where all the raunchy sex shops were pushed. Are you referring to the Barbes Rochechouart area?
  - VHRanger 4y ago
    The Stalingrad-La Chapelle area, mainly. Yeah other parts of the 18th are really nice. Also to note, I make it a point to avoid, say, inland Baltimore or South Detroit. Whereas I did go to North Paris, which speaks the difference. But compared to Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto Paris is certainly still a level below in safety. I imagine the Japanese would say the same of Canada.