7 ms·

This is cool, but I have a fundamental question. Why learn machine learning when all the machines will learn how to create and control themselves and powerful

by nbzso 4y ago

This is cool, but I have a fundamental question. Why learn machine learning when all the machines will learn how to create and control themselves and powerful elites will offload the burden of governments to control us? Or we race ourselves to fulfill the last jobs on earth? Is this progress for humanity or enslavement and the end of our species? I am serious. This question is honest. Maybe my IQ is too low to understand the logic of this innovation. Maybe I have seen too much tech implementation doing bad stuff to humans, who knows? Please, enlighten me.

jstx1 4y ago
This question isn't specific to machine learning - if you've given up already, don't bother learning anything and see how it goes.
- nbzso 4y ago
  I never give up. Just asked for information, to fight my own bias. Obviously there is a world outside which will have analogue and mechanical parts. But this is not the question. The question is why to cut your wrists with a blunt object and stream the event for validation is suddenly a rational behavior?
  - andrewm4894 4y ago
    Are you a LLM or something? :)
    - nbzso 4y ago
      Yes. Like you.:)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- psychoslave 4y ago
  I guess that the fear, be it well founded or delusional, is fueled by the idea that a hammer for example have a lesser potential to inadvertently beat humans at civilizational level.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    I'm not questioning the fear at all. My point is that you should do the best you can with what you're given, and lifting up your arms and saying that you aren't going to learn anymore isn't doing the best you can.
- thelittleone 4y ago
  He didn't say or imply he had given up and I found the question quite interesting.
nbzsoretar 4y ago
You've guessed it right, AGI is a long way off (if ever) but you're not exactly a general intelligence either - yes, you are fucked. It's not like I could tell Chat GPT "I want a fully featured browser" or "I want a machine learning framework" and it'll just come up with a working Chrome or PyTorch. But those are way, way, way outside your abilities they might as well be magic as far as you're concerned.
- nbzso 4y ago
  Very informative and polite response. Thank you.
jmfldn 4y ago
I think it's all to play for, the future that we create using AI technologies. If we don't engage though as citizens then it probably is game over, yes. The folks at OpenAI like Sam Altman are certainly very aware of the potential hazards of LLMs and advanced AI generally, and Elon Musk famously is. The fact is though, these technologies exist and we can't bury our heads in the sand. There is also an enormous upside if we, as a society, marshal the technology and regulate it properly. I think a degree of nervousness is an appropriate reaction, I'm a little nervous. I'm also excited about the potential. I also see it as a somewhat inevitable evolution of computers. From at least the early 1950s this was "the plan" in a sense. Alan Turing certainly thought so. But yes, nervousness is warranted. We must tread carefully.
maelito 4y ago
I don't get why your question is getting unvoted. This is a serious question. For engineers and "normal people" as well : why bother learning ?
- narag 4y ago
  That's not a serious question, it's the very definition of trolling. You can replace Stable Diffusion with any other subject to learn, and that particular doom scenario with a similar one or, if you don't feel very inclined to ellucubrate, just say the good old "why learn anything when we all are eventually going to die and be forgotten". Not cool.
  - nbzso 4y ago
    Please, tell me your definition of trolling. Maybe after you help me understand, I will explain to the illustrators why they must prompt with text instead of drawing? Assuming that I don't learn is wrong. I have a local installation of SD with a lot of models to test. The only useful thing in this gizmo is the Control Net module or maybe the Photoshop plugin for outpainting. You can upload your linear representation (sketch) and generate. But in essence, this is not progress. I don't extend my drawing ability or produce any original work by synthesizing all the available artworks. The long term negative effects are obvious. After 3 to 5 years, kids will not bother to draw at all. In my view, this is not progress for humanity, there are a ton of scientific data about the importance of drawing for development of the mind. The same applies to every human form of creation. You cannot beat the ultimate "calculator" with a model trained on all human intellectual production. Don't get me to start on corporations and greed and how they will view the necessity of human labor.
    - narag 4y ago
      Please, tell me your definition of trolling. You enter a room where people are discussing a technical subject, trying to find ways to collaborate and have a better understanding and then you start giving your speech about the dark future of humanity, education, poverty and politics. Picture yourself in the physical world doing that and imagine the reactions. Why do you think it's acceptable online?
whatyesaid 4y ago
If you don't need to learn anything and can fulfil and sustain yourself then I wouldn't. The reality is that's not the case for most people. You also don't need to learn things with the expectation of a job.
blibble 4y ago
> Or we race ourselves to fulfill the last jobs on earth? I find the gitlab employees (developers) being excited over copilot to be almost the definition of insane short term gain, but in the long term it destroys demand for their own product developers that don't need to be employed don't need a subscription to github automating your own company/business out of existence
- Closi 4y ago
  Depends what people are motivated to do - if you just want to build cool things quicker, you will probably be excited by ML. If you like writing algorithms and enjoy the mental problem-solving aspect of it, then you might not like it. If your main motivation is to protect your job/livelihood and ensure your existing skillset is in demand, then you will probably be worried. But in any scenario, the cat is out of the bag - you can't un-invent it so might as well get excited and be on the train, rather than be the person that gets left behind.
  - blibble 4y ago
    > But in any scenario, the cat is out of the bag - you can't un-invent it so might as well get excited and be on the train, rather than be the person that gets left behind. there are plenty of other ways to deal with it politically push for AI output to be banned, made un-exploitable or highly taxed or the luddite approach time will tell how the several billion people about to be made destitute will react
    - Closi 4y ago
      Pushing for AI output to be banned is not a long term approach IMO unless all countries do it in unison - countries who do not ban AI output will be much more competitive, and those that ban it will be left in the dust. Any country that banned computers in 1979 would have really hurt themselves. Society will need to adapt - doesn't necessarily make sense having several billion people doing something that a computer can do quicker, more accurately and more easily, just to keep people in employment (doing something that a lot of people hate).
bl0b 4y ago
I'm learning this stuff because I think it's fascinating. To be fair I know I'm light years behind the cutting-edge so I feel I can sleep assured that I won't take too much of the blame for having created our new AI overlords, or taking the jobs, etc. Also, generative art and LLMs are undoubtedly impressive, but not completely my cup of tea. But you can always take your ML knowledge and find a domain/problem you care about to apply it to. It's not like literally everything will be solved in the future.
62951413 4y ago
The future John Connor surely needs that kind of knowledge to re-program the T-800. So does Neo if you expect the future to be not quite that violent.
- nbzso 4y ago
  Maybe this is the most rational answer. We are flawed creatures, vanity, self-importance, greed, power. Who will watch the "watchers"? The good intentions are behind wars, behind removing gain of function research. But in reality, there is always a chance of some "lab" to leak the "agent" of destruction.

by nbzso 4y ago

jstx1 4y ago

This question isn't specific to machine learning - if you've given up already, don't bother learning anything and see how it goes.

nbzso 4y ago
I never give up. Just asked for information, to fight my own bias. Obviously there is a world outside which will have analogue and mechanical parts. But this is not the question. The question is why to cut your wrists with a blunt object and stream the event for validation is suddenly a rational behavior?
- andrewm4894 4y ago
  Are you a LLM or something? :)
  - nbzso 4y ago
    Yes. Like you.:)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
psychoslave 4y ago
I guess that the fear, be it well founded or delusional, is fueled by the idea that a hammer for example have a lesser potential to inadvertently beat humans at civilizational level.
- jstx1 4y ago
  I'm not questioning the fear at all. My point is that you should do the best you can with what you're given, and lifting up your arms and saying that you aren't going to learn anymore isn't doing the best you can.
thelittleone 4y ago
He didn't say or imply he had given up and I found the question quite interesting.

nbzsoretar 4y ago

You've guessed it right, AGI is a long way off (if ever) but you're not exactly a general intelligence either - yes, you are fucked. It's not like I could tell Chat GPT "I want a fully featured browser" or "I want a machine learning framework" and it'll just come up with a working Chrome or PyTorch. But those are way, way, way outside your abilities they might as well be magic as far as you're concerned.

nbzso 4y ago
Very informative and polite response. Thank you.

jmfldn 4y ago

I think it's all to play for, the future that we create using AI technologies. If we don't engage though as citizens then it probably is game over, yes. The folks at OpenAI like Sam Altman are certainly very aware of the potential hazards of LLMs and advanced AI generally, and Elon Musk famously is. The fact is though, these technologies exist and we can't bury our heads in the sand. There is also an enormous upside if we, as a society, marshal the technology and regulate it properly. I think a degree of nervousness is an appropriate reaction, I'm a little nervous. I'm also excited about the potential. I also see it as a somewhat inevitable evolution of computers. From at least the early 1950s this was "the plan" in a sense. Alan Turing certainly thought so. But yes, nervousness is warranted. We must tread carefully.

maelito 4y ago

I don't get why your question is getting unvoted. This is a serious question. For engineers and "normal people" as well : why bother learning ?

narag 4y ago
That's not a serious question, it's the very definition of trolling. You can replace Stable Diffusion with any other subject to learn, and that particular doom scenario with a similar one or, if you don't feel very inclined to ellucubrate, just say the good old "why learn anything when we all are eventually going to die and be forgotten". Not cool.
- nbzso 4y ago
  Please, tell me your definition of trolling. Maybe after you help me understand, I will explain to the illustrators why they must prompt with text instead of drawing? Assuming that I don't learn is wrong. I have a local installation of SD with a lot of models to test. The only useful thing in this gizmo is the Control Net module or maybe the Photoshop plugin for outpainting. You can upload your linear representation (sketch) and generate. But in essence, this is not progress. I don't extend my drawing ability or produce any original work by synthesizing all the available artworks. The long term negative effects are obvious. After 3 to 5 years, kids will not bother to draw at all. In my view, this is not progress for humanity, there are a ton of scientific data about the importance of drawing for development of the mind. The same applies to every human form of creation. You cannot beat the ultimate "calculator" with a model trained on all human intellectual production. Don't get me to start on corporations and greed and how they will view the necessity of human labor.
  - narag 4y ago
    Please, tell me your definition of trolling. You enter a room where people are discussing a technical subject, trying to find ways to collaborate and have a better understanding and then you start giving your speech about the dark future of humanity, education, poverty and politics. Picture yourself in the physical world doing that and imagine the reactions. Why do you think it's acceptable online?

whatyesaid 4y ago

If you don't need to learn anything and can fulfil and sustain yourself then I wouldn't. The reality is that's not the case for most people. You also don't need to learn things with the expectation of a job.

blibble 4y ago

> Or we race ourselves to fulfill the last jobs on earth? I find the gitlab employees (developers) being excited over copilot to be almost the definition of insane short term gain, but in the long term it destroys demand for their own product developers that don't need to be employed don't need a subscription to github automating your own company/business out of existence

Closi 4y ago
Depends what people are motivated to do - if you just want to build cool things quicker, you will probably be excited by ML. If you like writing algorithms and enjoy the mental problem-solving aspect of it, then you might not like it. If your main motivation is to protect your job/livelihood and ensure your existing skillset is in demand, then you will probably be worried. But in any scenario, the cat is out of the bag - you can't un-invent it so might as well get excited and be on the train, rather than be the person that gets left behind.
- blibble 4y ago
  > But in any scenario, the cat is out of the bag - you can't un-invent it so might as well get excited and be on the train, rather than be the person that gets left behind. there are plenty of other ways to deal with it politically push for AI output to be banned, made un-exploitable or highly taxed or the luddite approach time will tell how the several billion people about to be made destitute will react
  - Closi 4y ago
    Pushing for AI output to be banned is not a long term approach IMO unless all countries do it in unison - countries who do not ban AI output will be much more competitive, and those that ban it will be left in the dust. Any country that banned computers in 1979 would have really hurt themselves. Society will need to adapt - doesn't necessarily make sense having several billion people doing something that a computer can do quicker, more accurately and more easily, just to keep people in employment (doing something that a lot of people hate).

bl0b 4y ago

I'm learning this stuff because I think it's fascinating. To be fair I know I'm light years behind the cutting-edge so I feel I can sleep assured that I won't take too much of the blame for having created our new AI overlords, or taking the jobs, etc. Also, generative art and LLMs are undoubtedly impressive, but not completely my cup of tea. But you can always take your ML knowledge and find a domain/problem you care about to apply it to. It's not like literally everything will be solved in the future.

62951413 4y ago

The future John Connor surely needs that kind of knowledge to re-program the T-800. So does Neo if you expect the future to be not quite that violent.

nbzso 4y ago
Maybe this is the most rational answer. We are flawed creatures, vanity, self-importance, greed, power. Who will watch the "watchers"? The good intentions are behind wars, behind removing gain of function research. But in reality, there is always a chance of some "lab" to leak the "agent" of destruction.