4 ms·

>> SF has become so unsafe. Why aren't the democrats in charge voted out of office for other people who will do something about it? Do people just not vote in t

>> SF has become so unsafe. Why aren't the democrats in charge voted out of office for other people who will do something about it? Do people just not vote in that city? > If you’re outside of a situation looking in and wondering why people aren’t voting the way you think they should it almost certainly means you’re misreading the situation. Didn't SF recall its local prosecutor recently over crime issues? It sounds like people may actually be trying (somewhat) to vote the way the GP thinks they should. I would hazard a guess that the answer to the GP's question is something along the lines that SF residents hate Republicans, but Democrats only come in so many flavors nowadays (and not even all of those are available in the Bay Area).

fogzen 4y ago
Violent crime went down during Boudin’s tenure. Don’t base opinions on media propaganda.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Violent crime went down during Boudin’s tenure. Don’t base opinions on media propaganda. So are SF residents propagandized sheeple and recalled him for no good reason, or is there more to the story than your first sentence?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Garry Tan and police unions from multiple cities funding a big campaign? https://www.theinformation.com/articles/garry-tan-vs-chesa-boudin-the-san-francisco-political-scene-gets-a-new-tech-combatant https://www.theinformation.com/articles/garry-tan-vs-chesa-b... https://twitter.com/jackiefielder_/status/1641656117083381760 https://twitter.com/jackiefielder_/status/164165611708338176... Maybe recalling Boudin is right or not, but either way when a lot of money is injected into a campaign, it tends to influence outcomes. Just see Prop 22.
    - shuckles 4y ago
      Boudin had plenty of donors from around the country (including from billionaires) and was getting free puff pieces placed about him in The New Yorker about his Los Angeles fundraisers. Money flows in all directions.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        Certainly, but not equally. > By June, the groups seeking to recall Boudin together raised $7.2 million to oust him, while the district attorney’s backers gathered about $3.3 million. https://www.sfchronicle.com/election/article/Chesa-Boudin-ousted-as-San-Francisco-District-17226641.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/election/article/Chesa-Boudin-ou...
        shuckles 4y ago
        Yes because by that point Boudin had lost his electoral credibility. It's instructive to see who funded his original run for DA.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        The narrative was against Boudin by the time of the recall, but that campaign was nevertheless still funded by big money, which has a tendency to amplify narratives, and this entire discussion was focused on the recall anyway.
        shuckles 4y ago
        The entire discussion has no focus and starts with a false claim about violent crime being down between 2020 and 2022. In any case, claims that money influenced outcomes are ill-substantiated since many San Francisco election results go against the best-funded outcomes.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Shoplifting is not a "violent crime". It was everywhere, out in the open, broad daylight. Ride a bike into a store, ride out with a garbage bag full of stuff, set up a table around the corner and sell what you stole at a discount. Boudin refused to prosecute any of this.
    - fogzen 4y ago
      Boudin's charging rate was not significantly different than other DAs: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3QGJv/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3QGJv/1/ SF has a significantly lower charging rate than other major cities, but there's many factors that go into that (the quality of police work, percentage of defendants that live in the district, etc.).
  - fogzen 4y ago
    Violent crime is more than homicides. Violent crime was down according to SF city police department: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ You can see more statistics in the discussion here: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Chesa-Boudin-San-Francisco-crime-statistics-recall-16268178.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Chesa-Boudin-San-Fra... Homicides were not outside of historical trends during Boudin's tenure. A few homicides difference across years has nothing to do with the DA. This narrative that radical leftist district attorneys are responsible for crime is media propaganda completely divorced from the factual realities of crime. Comparing charging rates of recent San Francisco district attorneys with other cities shows San Francisco has tended to charge way fewer crimes brought to them. Boudin and previous attorneys have blamed this on poor policing, and that SF is unique in that people in surrounding metros travel into SF to commit burglaries. Even so, that has nothing to do with the political leanings of the DA, since cities with much higher charging rates and lower petty crime have Democrat DAs.
- shuckles 4y ago
  No it did not. Homicides were up in 2020 and 2021 with 2022 flat at 2021's highs.
  - fogzen 4y ago
    Violent crime (robberies, rapes, and assaults) was down: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ You really think 41 versus 49 homicides in a year is the result of which DA is in office? The homicide numbers are not far outside of historical trends, which is downward over the last few decades. https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22880695/20191114/014855/styles/raw/public/processed_images/TrendinSFHomicides11.13.19.png?width=726 https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22880695/20191114/014855/s... The notion that the DA has any outsized impact on crime rates seems baseless to me. I've never seen any evidence which demonstrates a real relationship between district attorneys and overall crime.
    - shuckles 4y ago
      I’ve replied to you elsewhere about the issue of using official statistics in the way you are. I’d recommend not making the same point in two places to minimize comment duplication. I was not making claims here about causal relationships between DAs and crime rates. I was simply engaging with the question about trends of violent crime rates in San Francisco. If pressed, my guess is San Francisco under Boudin saw a slower increase in violent crime than comparable jurisdictions. However, I also think Boudin actually accomplished very little since most meaningful criminal justice reform occurs at the state level. Reasonable models suggest San Francisco incarcerates too little and Modesto too much. That’s why, for example, Prop 25 bail reform would have led to more pretrial detention in San Francisco while reducing the rate for California overall. I disagree with your assessment of homicide trends. The United States and San Francisco both have seen a trend shift towards increased homicide that would set us back approximately three decades. This is significant. If a DA in any case has no control over crime rates in the community, then it’s a vibes based job, and Boudin had horrible vibes, as evidenced by his getting recalled.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  Per data provided by Boudin? I know most colleagues widely even stopped reporting crimes such as break-ins because the police wouldn't even show up. Let alone pick up the phone - which happened in my case twice in a year
  - fogzen 4y ago
    Per data provided by the police department. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/

fogzen 4y ago

Violent crime went down during Boudin’s tenure. Don’t base opinions on media propaganda.

tablespoon 4y ago
> Violent crime went down during Boudin’s tenure. Don’t base opinions on media propaganda. So are SF residents propagandized sheeple and recalled him for no good reason, or is there more to the story than your first sentence?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Garry Tan and police unions from multiple cities funding a big campaign? https://www.theinformation.com/articles/garry-tan-vs-chesa-boudin-the-san-francisco-political-scene-gets-a-new-tech-combatant https://www.theinformation.com/articles/garry-tan-vs-chesa-b... https://twitter.com/jackiefielder_/status/1641656117083381760 https://twitter.com/jackiefielder_/status/164165611708338176... Maybe recalling Boudin is right or not, but either way when a lot of money is injected into a campaign, it tends to influence outcomes. Just see Prop 22.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    Boudin had plenty of donors from around the country (including from billionaires) and was getting free puff pieces placed about him in The New Yorker about his Los Angeles fundraisers. Money flows in all directions.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Certainly, but not equally. > By June, the groups seeking to recall Boudin together raised $7.2 million to oust him, while the district attorney’s backers gathered about $3.3 million. https://www.sfchronicle.com/election/article/Chesa-Boudin-ousted-as-San-Francisco-District-17226641.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/election/article/Chesa-Boudin-ou...
      - shuckles 4y ago
        Yes because by that point Boudin had lost his electoral credibility. It's instructive to see who funded his original run for DA.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        The narrative was against Boudin by the time of the recall, but that campaign was nevertheless still funded by big money, which has a tendency to amplify narratives, and this entire discussion was focused on the recall anyway.
        shuckles 4y ago
        The entire discussion has no focus and starts with a false claim about violent crime being down between 2020 and 2022. In any case, claims that money influenced outcomes are ill-substantiated since many San Francisco election results go against the best-funded outcomes.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Shoplifting is not a "violent crime". It was everywhere, out in the open, broad daylight. Ride a bike into a store, ride out with a garbage bag full of stuff, set up a table around the corner and sell what you stole at a discount. Boudin refused to prosecute any of this.
  - fogzen 4y ago
    Boudin's charging rate was not significantly different than other DAs: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3QGJv/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3QGJv/1/ SF has a significantly lower charging rate than other major cities, but there's many factors that go into that (the quality of police work, percentage of defendants that live in the district, etc.).
- fogzen 4y ago
  Violent crime is more than homicides. Violent crime was down according to SF city police department: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ You can see more statistics in the discussion here: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Chesa-Boudin-San-Francisco-crime-statistics-recall-16268178.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Chesa-Boudin-San-Fra... Homicides were not outside of historical trends during Boudin's tenure. A few homicides difference across years has nothing to do with the DA. This narrative that radical leftist district attorneys are responsible for crime is media propaganda completely divorced from the factual realities of crime. Comparing charging rates of recent San Francisco district attorneys with other cities shows San Francisco has tended to charge way fewer crimes brought to them. Boudin and previous attorneys have blamed this on poor policing, and that SF is unique in that people in surrounding metros travel into SF to commit burglaries. Even so, that has nothing to do with the political leanings of the DA, since cities with much higher charging rates and lower petty crime have Democrat DAs.
shuckles 4y ago
No it did not. Homicides were up in 2020 and 2021 with 2022 flat at 2021's highs.
- fogzen 4y ago
  Violent crime (robberies, rapes, and assaults) was down: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ You really think 41 versus 49 homicides in a year is the result of which DA is in office? The homicide numbers are not far outside of historical trends, which is downward over the last few decades. https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22880695/20191114/014855/styles/raw/public/processed_images/TrendinSFHomicides11.13.19.png?width=726 https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22880695/20191114/014855/s... The notion that the DA has any outsized impact on crime rates seems baseless to me. I've never seen any evidence which demonstrates a real relationship between district attorneys and overall crime.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    I’ve replied to you elsewhere about the issue of using official statistics in the way you are. I’d recommend not making the same point in two places to minimize comment duplication. I was not making claims here about causal relationships between DAs and crime rates. I was simply engaging with the question about trends of violent crime rates in San Francisco. If pressed, my guess is San Francisco under Boudin saw a slower increase in violent crime than comparable jurisdictions. However, I also think Boudin actually accomplished very little since most meaningful criminal justice reform occurs at the state level. Reasonable models suggest San Francisco incarcerates too little and Modesto too much. That’s why, for example, Prop 25 bail reform would have led to more pretrial detention in San Francisco while reducing the rate for California overall. I disagree with your assessment of homicide trends. The United States and San Francisco both have seen a trend shift towards increased homicide that would set us back approximately three decades. This is significant. If a DA in any case has no control over crime rates in the community, then it’s a vibes based job, and Boudin had horrible vibes, as evidenced by his getting recalled.
hackernewds 4y ago
Per data provided by Boudin? I know most colleagues widely even stopped reporting crimes such as break-ins because the police wouldn't even show up. Let alone pick up the phone - which happened in my case twice in a year
- fogzen 4y ago
  Per data provided by the police department. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/7kTBb/1/