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Of course. But how does National Merit Scholar compare vs. 4-H club president, or 6 years of piano vs. 4 years of community theater musicals, or civilian paren

Of course. But how does National Merit Scholar compare vs. 4-H club president, or 6 years of piano vs. 4 years of community theater musicals, or civilian parents vs. military parents, or 3 years of Japanese vs. 3 years of fine art instruction? A series of state academic decathlon medals vs. a prominent role in the state model legislature?. I knew both of these women very well, and they both have had fine lives so far, but I couldn't figure out what made one so much more desirable than the other. On paper, they look almost equivalent, except one had better grades. Maybe she was just a better interviewer. I guess my point is that it is impossible for me to say if there is real prejudice in Ivy admissions, or if their processes are just nearly unfathomable to the outsider.

barry-cotter 15y ago
4-H Club president hurts your chances of admission, just like being involved in JROTC or anything else that has the faintest whiff of social conservatism. But what Espenshade and Radford found in regard to what they call "career-oriented activities" was truly shocking even to this hardened veteran of the campus ideological and cultural wars. Participation in such Red State activities as high school ROTC, 4-H clubs, or the Future Farmers of America was found to reduce very substantially a student's chances of gaining admission to the competitive private colleges in the NSCE database on an all-other-things-considered basis. The admissions disadvantage was greatest for those in leadership positions in these activities or those winning honors and awards. "Being an officer or winning awards" for such career-oriented activities as junior ROTC, 4-H, or Future Farmers of America, say Espenshade and Radford, "has a significantly negative association with admission outcomes at highly selective institutions." Excelling in these activities "is associated with 60 or 65 percent lower odds of admission." http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_divers...
- dgabriel 15y ago
  That is incredibly interesting. Thank you.
- Quizzal 15y ago
  Helicopter parents everywhere I'm sure have taken this tip and shared it virally. Expect a sudden drop in participation over the next 10 years as a result! But on the flip side, expect creations of extracurricular civic groups that are "college approved".

barry-cotter 15y ago

4-H Club president hurts your chances of admission, just like being involved in JROTC or anything else that has the faintest whiff of social conservatism. But what Espenshade and Radford found in regard to what they call "career-oriented activities" was truly shocking even to this hardened veteran of the campus ideological and cultural wars. Participation in such Red State activities as high school ROTC, 4-H clubs, or the Future Farmers of America was found to reduce very substantially a student's chances of gaining admission to the competitive private colleges in the NSCE database on an all-other-things-considered basis. The admissions disadvantage was greatest for those in leadership positions in these activities or those winning honors and awards. "Being an officer or winning awards" for such career-oriented activities as junior ROTC, 4-H, or Future Farmers of America, say Espenshade and Radford, "has a significantly negative association with admission outcomes at highly selective institutions." Excelling in these activities "is associated with 60 or 65 percent lower odds of admission." http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_divers...

dgabriel 15y ago
That is incredibly interesting. Thank you.
Quizzal 15y ago
Helicopter parents everywhere I'm sure have taken this tip and shared it virally. Expect a sudden drop in participation over the next 10 years as a result! But on the flip side, expect creations of extracurricular civic groups that are "college approved".