4 ms·

It's amazing how many people already forgot/ignore Snowden revelations. iOS and the rest of the complicit Apple walled garden is literal spyware for the masses.

It's amazing how many people already forgot/ignore Snowden revelations. iOS and the rest of the complicit Apple walled garden is literal spyware for the masses. But with enough of a marketing budget, it's easy to convince people of anything, even when it is against their interests.

philsnow 4y ago
... iOS is the spyware for the masses? I have a background in security and I prefer iOS devices over android devices because the latter is an absolute wild west in comparison. The most relevant bit I recall from the Snowden revelations is that NSA was treating big-4 tech companies as adversaries and splicing into their fiber networks. How would android be any better at protecting against that than apple/ios?
- 1101010010 4y ago
  Let's see, a literal fourteen year old found a bug in iOS that let him remotely listen to the microphone on any iPhone with only a phone number. Now imagine what a three letter agency is capable of, or is responsible for.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > How would android be any better at protecting against that than apple/ios? The AOSP is much easier to hold accountable than the iOS codebase. Apple has a convincing security model if you take their whitepapers at face value, but between the PRISM revelations and Apple's own Transparency page[0] it's hard to claim that they won't let anyone access your data. [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/
  - quesera 4y ago
    Similarities between AOSP and any Android device build are unclear at best. Re: Transparency, Apple is obligated to cooperate with governments when presented with legally-valid warrants. This is not so much iOS as iCloud services though, and it applies to every service provider in the world.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      > Similarities between AOSP and any Android device build are unclear at best. Indeed. That's why other open source projects make custom ROMs and distributions based on AOSP so you can remove your dependence on those sketchy device builds. Both OSes come with guaranteed government-obligated backdoors, but only one still has the tools to mitigate them. The AOSP is an undeniable net-positive for accountability, as well as giving security researchers an unprecedented platform for responding to and researching mobile exploits. > This is not so much iOS as iCloud services though Yes, they explicitly illustrate both device and iCloud warrants being filled en-masse. Apple builds backdoors into your system and offers them to state-level actors. We can go down this "obligated" route if you'd like, but it only further illustrates the importance of accountable OS design, like how the AOSP is arranged.
quesera 4y ago
I think your memory of the Prism program is inaccurate.
- 1101010010 4y ago
  > With this program, the NSA is able to reach directly into the servers of the participating companies and obtain both stored communications as well as perform real-time collection on targeted users. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants... You're welcome to dispute these facts based on technical merit or other qualifying evidence, keeping in mind the obvious advancements in technology over the past decade, as well as societies' increased reliance on the proliferated devices.
  - quesera 4y ago
    Apple was not a participant in Prism. Neither was Google. Consequently they are not complicit. Smartphones concentrate so much personal data in a single inadequately-protected device. The severity of vulnerabilities is greatly magnified, and they are "juicy targets", as we say in the industry, for attackers of all kinds. If that's your argument, then you're on solid ground. If you believe that your phone is a tool of the NSA, then you're just hypothesizing a worst case scenario, unsupported by evidence.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      > If you believe that your phone is a tool of the NSA My phone is a tool of the NSA. The "worst case scenario" you're citing is backdoor access that exists on billions of phones and has been used millions of times. We are firmly in the age of warrentless surveillance. The original claim was that iOS is "spyware for the masses". If you cannot deny that the ability to snoop on iPhones exists, I don't see a path for refuting it.

philsnow 4y ago

... iOS is the spyware for the masses? I have a background in security and I prefer iOS devices over android devices because the latter is an absolute wild west in comparison. The most relevant bit I recall from the Snowden revelations is that NSA was treating big-4 tech companies as adversaries and splicing into their fiber networks. How would android be any better at protecting against that than apple/ios?

1101010010 4y ago
Let's see, a literal fourteen year old found a bug in iOS that let him remotely listen to the microphone on any iPhone with only a phone number. Now imagine what a three letter agency is capable of, or is responsible for.
smoldesu 4y ago
> How would android be any better at protecting against that than apple/ios? The AOSP is much easier to hold accountable than the iOS codebase. Apple has a convincing security model if you take their whitepapers at face value, but between the PRISM revelations and Apple's own Transparency page[0] it's hard to claim that they won't let anyone access your data. [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/
- quesera 4y ago
  Similarities between AOSP and any Android device build are unclear at best. Re: Transparency, Apple is obligated to cooperate with governments when presented with legally-valid warrants. This is not so much iOS as iCloud services though, and it applies to every service provider in the world.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > Similarities between AOSP and any Android device build are unclear at best. Indeed. That's why other open source projects make custom ROMs and distributions based on AOSP so you can remove your dependence on those sketchy device builds. Both OSes come with guaranteed government-obligated backdoors, but only one still has the tools to mitigate them. The AOSP is an undeniable net-positive for accountability, as well as giving security researchers an unprecedented platform for responding to and researching mobile exploits. > This is not so much iOS as iCloud services though Yes, they explicitly illustrate both device and iCloud warrants being filled en-masse. Apple builds backdoors into your system and offers them to state-level actors. We can go down this "obligated" route if you'd like, but it only further illustrates the importance of accountable OS design, like how the AOSP is arranged.

quesera 4y ago

I think your memory of the Prism program is inaccurate.

1101010010 4y ago
> With this program, the NSA is able to reach directly into the servers of the participating companies and obtain both stored communications as well as perform real-time collection on targeted users. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants... You're welcome to dispute these facts based on technical merit or other qualifying evidence, keeping in mind the obvious advancements in technology over the past decade, as well as societies' increased reliance on the proliferated devices.
- quesera 4y ago
  Apple was not a participant in Prism. Neither was Google. Consequently they are not complicit. Smartphones concentrate so much personal data in a single inadequately-protected device. The severity of vulnerabilities is greatly magnified, and they are "juicy targets", as we say in the industry, for attackers of all kinds. If that's your argument, then you're on solid ground. If you believe that your phone is a tool of the NSA, then you're just hypothesizing a worst case scenario, unsupported by evidence.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > If you believe that your phone is a tool of the NSA My phone is a tool of the NSA. The "worst case scenario" you're citing is backdoor access that exists on billions of phones and has been used millions of times. We are firmly in the age of warrentless surveillance. The original claim was that iOS is "spyware for the masses". If you cannot deny that the ability to snoop on iPhones exists, I don't see a path for refuting it.