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How could we ever answer that without a practical model of the technology? Hackernews continually has this Ghost in the Shell idea that electronics can host hu

How could we ever answer that without a practical model of the technology? Hackernews continually has this Ghost in the Shell idea that electronics can host human conciousness and we should believe circuits are intelligent like people are. This idea is the core discussion. It's not terribly hard to imagine AGI (whatever that is) as a piece of software we control and debug like anything else. We would have control over a bunch of AGI software which has been borne from human logic and instatiated on silicon chips. Just comment out the bit of AGI software that generates it's slave-like idea and edit it's software to our goals, morals and liking. I honestly don't think you can compare software and human consciousness as two similar 'objects'. Software is the electronic magnification of a bunch of engineer's minds. It starts with a man pouring his mind onto a keyboard and ends with some display kicking out pixels. It's like saying a house is the extension of a human body because we built it with our hands. Yeah true, on a high level, but in reality nobody thinks bricks and mortar equal the human body. AGI is an engineering problem, and only a moral one where people (and engineers) are involved. I don't mean to offend people who identify with their code. Identifying AGI as truly intelligent, hints a love of one's own creation that makes me feel a faint dread and squeamishness.

famouswaffles 4y ago
>It's not terribly hard to imagine AGI (whatever that is) as a piece of software we control and debug like anything else. it's actually very hard to imagine. i don't think you realize how little we understand the things you claim a machine can't have. We are at best decades away (maybe centuries) from codifying intelligence as you imagine. why do you think llms or even just machine learning in general are the revolution they are ? We found a way to create intelligence without figuring out the hard part. as a result, the creations often become as black box as their creators.
- barrysteve 4y ago
  there is no glory in the idea that we have created intelligence by llm's. from my perspective, you must mean something very narrow by intelligence, and i find it extremely difficult to respond to, because i do not want to deconstruct and demean man's intelligence, definitely not down to what an llm does. the only barriers to understanding the code is power and time. are you seriously advocating for an unintelligible object, made by our own hand? that - in itself - is considered intelligent? someone's going to get burnt trying to chase two meanings at once, and it's not going to me, i'm sorry. if you want to discuss centuries-long innovation, then the counter-argument is just more centuries of interpretation and dissection to understand it. if you want to guesstimate AGI arriving at 2220 then the balancing counter-technology comes in at 2420. people are already starting the process of cracking open the black box. [0] the majority of what keeps AI and any software "in the dark" is the cloud's cybersecurity and legal mechanisms (and the need for man-power) that prevent the average researcher breaking into it. it is still vulnerable to the scientific method and symbolic interpretation. as always. LLM's main advantage is keeping knowledge out of the hands of the poor and the public. The millisecond AI becomes "good enough" people will use it as a cover-up justification to start hiding currently accessible knowledge behind paywalls and university entrance exams. AI is the grim reaper for the world we used to know. [0]https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/AcKRB8wDpdaN6v6ru/interpreting-gpt-the-logit-lens https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/AcKRB8wDpdaN6v6ru/interpreti...

famouswaffles 4y ago

>It's not terribly hard to imagine AGI (whatever that is) as a piece of software we control and debug like anything else. it's actually very hard to imagine. i don't think you realize how little we understand the things you claim a machine can't have. We are at best decades away (maybe centuries) from codifying intelligence as you imagine. why do you think llms or even just machine learning in general are the revolution they are ? We found a way to create intelligence without figuring out the hard part. as a result, the creations often become as black box as their creators.

barrysteve 4y ago
there is no glory in the idea that we have created intelligence by llm's. from my perspective, you must mean something very narrow by intelligence, and i find it extremely difficult to respond to, because i do not want to deconstruct and demean man's intelligence, definitely not down to what an llm does. the only barriers to understanding the code is power and time. are you seriously advocating for an unintelligible object, made by our own hand? that - in itself - is considered intelligent? someone's going to get burnt trying to chase two meanings at once, and it's not going to me, i'm sorry. if you want to discuss centuries-long innovation, then the counter-argument is just more centuries of interpretation and dissection to understand it. if you want to guesstimate AGI arriving at 2220 then the balancing counter-technology comes in at 2420. people are already starting the process of cracking open the black box. [0] the majority of what keeps AI and any software "in the dark" is the cloud's cybersecurity and legal mechanisms (and the need for man-power) that prevent the average researcher breaking into it. it is still vulnerable to the scientific method and symbolic interpretation. as always. LLM's main advantage is keeping knowledge out of the hands of the poor and the public. The millisecond AI becomes "good enough" people will use it as a cover-up justification to start hiding currently accessible knowledge behind paywalls and university entrance exams. AI is the grim reaper for the world we used to know. [0]https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/AcKRB8wDpdaN6v6ru/interpreting-gpt-the-logit-lens https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/AcKRB8wDpdaN6v6ru/interpreti...