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I also know of this description of Yudkowsky: "a crank AI scholar who thinks preventing his ideas for sci-fi novels from becoming reality is more important than

I also know of this description of Yudkowsky: "a crank AI scholar who thinks preventing his ideas for sci-fi novels from becoming reality is more important than preventing malaria, and who freaked out once when a computer program from the future threatened to hurt him." https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/41198053 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/41198053 Make of that what you will, and if you like, read the book or find the author Sandifer's talks on podcast or video. But many people do make the case, in detail, that this "logical reasoning", "rationalists", "holistic view", "longtermism" etc has at best gone off the rails, and at worst was never on them in the first place. This is what grandparent poster means by "fringe viewpoints and problems with cults of personality" I mean, who wouldn't agree with "effective altruism". It sounds great, what's the alternative, being ineffective at it? Well, "if you do the numbers, you’ll understand that the most effective possible action is to fit out a really nice castle where movement leaders can sit and contemplate the future robot apocalypse" https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2023/02/06/ineffective-altruism-ftx-and-the-future-robot-apocalypse/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2023/02/06/ineffective-...

ben_w 4y ago
Pretty weird to criticise EY for thinking that about Malaria right before criticising EA who… put a lot into malaria prevention (amongst other neglected tropical diseases). Why would I read someone else's take on him when I've already read AI to Zombies? (Skip the Quantum Mechanics, Sabine Hossenfelder does it better). > I mean, who wouldn't agree with "effective altruism". It sounds great, what's the alternative, being ineffective at it? Ironically, the rationalist community would be who — I've heard them make both these points in other contexts: 1. Just because it's called something nice don't make it so (e.g. official name for Berlin Wall) 2. If you invert a phrase and it sounds like nonsense, the phrase doesn't mean much (other examples include any Rep/Dem politician saying "I believe in America" because it would be really weird if they didn't) (And since SBF, also going "what did we do wrong, what did we miss, how can we do better?") > was never on them in the first place I'd agree with that. It runs directly into everything upsetting about Utilitarianism, and I've only ever seen people shrug at those issues and act like they are immutable mathematical truths rather than anything to be resolved. > castle Sure isn't a good look! Lots of massively Bad here. But I'm also thinking of an ex of mine, lovely person and we're still friends, genuinely cares about the poor and the needy, it's been 5 years since we split and they've still not repaid what they borrowed to donate to charity while themselves unemployed. Politicians (at least, those who get elected) don't take any of my ex's causes remotely seriously. Worse, the UK's Overton window on both left and right treats, and has in my lifetime always treated, such people with contempt[0]. Have you seen where the British send their leaders to university? (Of course you have, that's rhetorical, I read your profile :)) Heck, sometimes it feels like the whole country is almost a pile of ridiculous castles around random street corners. [0] with a possible wibble for Corbyn, but I won't make that digression at this time

ben_w 4y ago

Pretty weird to criticise EY for thinking that about Malaria right before criticising EA who… put a lot into malaria prevention (amongst other neglected tropical diseases). Why would I read someone else's take on him when I've already read AI to Zombies? (Skip the Quantum Mechanics, Sabine Hossenfelder does it better). > I mean, who wouldn't agree with "effective altruism". It sounds great, what's the alternative, being ineffective at it? Ironically, the rationalist community would be who — I've heard them make both these points in other contexts: 1. Just because it's called something nice don't make it so (e.g. official name for Berlin Wall) 2. If you invert a phrase and it sounds like nonsense, the phrase doesn't mean much (other examples include any Rep/Dem politician saying "I believe in America" because it would be really weird if they didn't) (And since SBF, also going "what did we do wrong, what did we miss, how can we do better?") > was never on them in the first place I'd agree with that. It runs directly into everything upsetting about Utilitarianism, and I've only ever seen people shrug at those issues and act like they are immutable mathematical truths rather than anything to be resolved. > castle Sure isn't a good look! Lots of massively Bad here. But I'm also thinking of an ex of mine, lovely person and we're still friends, genuinely cares about the poor and the needy, it's been 5 years since we split and they've still not repaid what they borrowed to donate to charity while themselves unemployed. Politicians (at least, those who get elected) don't take any of my ex's causes remotely seriously. Worse, the UK's Overton window on both left and right treats, and has in my lifetime always treated, such people with contempt[0]. Have you seen where the British send their leaders to university? (Of course you have, that's rhetorical, I read your profile :)) Heck, sometimes it feels like the whole country is almost a pile of ridiculous castles around random street corners. [0] with a possible wibble for Corbyn, but I won't make that digression at this time