7 ms·

This is very true and frankly, if a city is going to make that kind of radical infrastructure investment, focusing primarily on bicycles is an odd choice since

This is very true and frankly, if a city is going to make that kind of radical infrastructure investment, focusing primarily on bicycles is an odd choice since a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike.

hnav 4y ago
right, the transition has to span generations and in that time ebikes, escoots, wheelchairs and mobility scooters will probably converge on 20mph personal transport that can fit into public transport for longer hops
adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
Focusing on bikes makes sense because even if you only get 10% of people out of cars, that can easily be 50% less traffic. Obviously a wide variety of approaches are needed, but bikes are often the fastest transit between two points, are cheap (both to own and to build infrastructure for), and are a form of exercise so have a public health benefit.
fnimick 4y ago
> a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike How so? People who are physically unable to are a vanishingly small number - maybe single-digit percentages.
outworlder 4y ago
> focusing primarily on bicycles is an odd choice since a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike. That's not true. Sure, in some areas the population is very unfit. But that's a problem that bikes can help with. If you look at areas that are very bike friendly, most of the population will bike. Even the elderly.
Fricken 4y ago
I feel like I'm being too obvious here but a significant portion of any urban population can't drive either.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  Not like that stops them...
paulgb 4y ago
The number I could find is that 6% of Americans don't know how to ride a bike, as of 2013[1] For comparison, far less than 94% of American adults have a license as of 2018[2]. And certainly, teenagers should count too -- having a bike opened up my world as a kid. [1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-dont-know-how-to-ride-a-bike/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-dont... [2] https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-population-holding-a-drivers-license-by-age-group/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-po...
- mattmaroon 4y ago
  Eh, there’s a big difference between having known how to ride a bike when you were a kid and being willing to do it now. Under 30% of adults ride bikes in a given year, and less then half of them even ride twice a month. People don’t like bikes. They’re significantly more likely to injure you than a car (though more mildly, and probably a lot less likely to kill you if you’re riding somewhere designed for bikes and where there are no cars). They offer no protection from the elements. You have to wear a helmet and mess up your hair. Etc. Adults just don’t want to bike everywhere when they could drive and billions in infrastructure won’t make that much different.
  - paulgb 4y ago
    I know anecdotes are not data, but I've been surprised how much “elasticity” there is in NYC when it comes to people I know who are not disposed to ride a bike starting to ride a bike as infrastructure (meaning both bike lanes and ride share) improve. On the other hand, there are lots of reasons why adults who can drive don't want to drive. I have a license but I'd rather bike than drive and not have to deal with parking, gas costs, traffic, etc. Plus I get some exercise.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    People don't like bikes when they are surrounded by two tonne metal monstrosities driven by people who aren't even paying attention half the time. Look at places like Amsterdam where there has been serious effort in building bike infrastructure. People bike.
arrrg 4y ago
What are you talking about? I’ve been struggling with obesity throughout my whole life (BMI of 46 at my high point which is damn high) and never been particularly fit, strong, or into sports. I don’t have a car (though I could afford one) and go nearly everywhere by bike. Non-electric bike. My hometown (Dresden, Germany) is relatively – but not totally – flat in all the places you might want to get to. That certainly helps. (Though the nearly non-existent biking infrastructure – except for painted lines – certainly doesn’t. But Dresden is not terminally car-centric, so it’s alright to drive there by bike.) I mean, just for moving around the city (usually around ten kilometer roundtrips, maybe the odd twenty kilometer roundtrip on the odd day where a more distant destination is where I want to get to) that just works for me without any problems, no matter how heavy I was. That doesn’t mean I go places at 30 km/h, in fact I might only go 15 km/h – but that’s still several times faster than walking and actually pretty competitive with cars and public transport. And while walking got harder as I got heavier (mainly just in terms of causing pain after relatively short distances), while climbing stairs got much harder as I got heavier, biking (and swimming!) honestly never felt that way to me, at least not for normal roundtrip distances around ten kilometers or so. I use bikes to get to places, to move throughout the world, not for sports. And for that you don’t need to that fit. And with an e-bike? That required fitness drops even lower. (Unfit seniors getting stuck somewhere in the alps with their rented e-bikes is a real classic …)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
micromacrofoot 4y ago
Can you cite a source on "significant" here? because it sounds very made up. Most people that can walk can ride a bike. Most people can walk.
- Fricken 4y ago
  And Motorized Wheelchairs are micromobility. Cycling infrastructure is well suited to them.
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    Though to be completely fair, some parts of the US don't even have pedestrian infrastructure. It's amazing how poorly planned much of the country is.
panick21_ 4y ago
Its ridiculous to call it a 'radical infrastructure investment'. The Us already made all the radical infrastructure investment in their absurdly over-designed roads. Some idiotic cities in the South even have 12 feet road lanes when 9-10 is already enough. The US has the needed infrastructure, converting to an elite bike lane network is incredibly cheap. In fact it saves a huge amount of money. Far less costly accidents, healthier people, better business in the city, higher property rights and so on. This has been proven over and over again. Its just in the US where even liberals seem to just buy the car industry marketing hook, line, and sinker. It has been proven also, that once there is safe bicycle infrastructure, people will bike. And most people can bike just fine. In fact, because children can actually bike, its actually more accessible to the population then cars. There are even these people, they are called poor people, that also might have a bike but not a car. At some point people have to break out of it and think about these things with logic and consider the last 30 years of evidence, rather then 1960s propaganda.

hnav 4y ago

right, the transition has to span generations and in that time ebikes, escoots, wheelchairs and mobility scooters will probably converge on 20mph personal transport that can fit into public transport for longer hops

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago

Focusing on bikes makes sense because even if you only get 10% of people out of cars, that can easily be 50% less traffic. Obviously a wide variety of approaches are needed, but bikes are often the fastest transit between two points, are cheap (both to own and to build infrastructure for), and are a form of exercise so have a public health benefit.

fnimick 4y ago

> a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike How so? People who are physically unable to are a vanishingly small number - maybe single-digit percentages.

outworlder 4y ago

> focusing primarily on bicycles is an odd choice since a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike. That's not true. Sure, in some areas the population is very unfit. But that's a problem that bikes can help with. If you look at areas that are very bike friendly, most of the population will bike. Even the elderly.

Fricken 4y ago

I feel like I'm being too obvious here but a significant portion of any urban population can't drive either.

wiredfool 4y ago
Not like that stops them...

paulgb 4y ago

The number I could find is that 6% of Americans don't know how to ride a bike, as of 2013[1] For comparison, far less than 94% of American adults have a license as of 2018[2]. And certainly, teenagers should count too -- having a bike opened up my world as a kid. [1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-dont-know-how-to-ride-a-bike/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-dont... [2] https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-population-holding-a-drivers-license-by-age-group/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-po...

mattmaroon 4y ago
Eh, there’s a big difference between having known how to ride a bike when you were a kid and being willing to do it now. Under 30% of adults ride bikes in a given year, and less then half of them even ride twice a month. People don’t like bikes. They’re significantly more likely to injure you than a car (though more mildly, and probably a lot less likely to kill you if you’re riding somewhere designed for bikes and where there are no cars). They offer no protection from the elements. You have to wear a helmet and mess up your hair. Etc. Adults just don’t want to bike everywhere when they could drive and billions in infrastructure won’t make that much different.
- paulgb 4y ago
  I know anecdotes are not data, but I've been surprised how much “elasticity” there is in NYC when it comes to people I know who are not disposed to ride a bike starting to ride a bike as infrastructure (meaning both bike lanes and ride share) improve. On the other hand, there are lots of reasons why adults who can drive don't want to drive. I have a license but I'd rather bike than drive and not have to deal with parking, gas costs, traffic, etc. Plus I get some exercise.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  People don't like bikes when they are surrounded by two tonne metal monstrosities driven by people who aren't even paying attention half the time. Look at places like Amsterdam where there has been serious effort in building bike infrastructure. People bike.

arrrg 4y ago

What are you talking about? I’ve been struggling with obesity throughout my whole life (BMI of 46 at my high point which is damn high) and never been particularly fit, strong, or into sports. I don’t have a car (though I could afford one) and go nearly everywhere by bike. Non-electric bike. My hometown (Dresden, Germany) is relatively – but not totally – flat in all the places you might want to get to. That certainly helps. (Though the nearly non-existent biking infrastructure – except for painted lines – certainly doesn’t. But Dresden is not terminally car-centric, so it’s alright to drive there by bike.) I mean, just for moving around the city (usually around ten kilometer roundtrips, maybe the odd twenty kilometer roundtrip on the odd day where a more distant destination is where I want to get to) that just works for me without any problems, no matter how heavy I was. That doesn’t mean I go places at 30 km/h, in fact I might only go 15 km/h – but that’s still several times faster than walking and actually pretty competitive with cars and public transport. And while walking got harder as I got heavier (mainly just in terms of causing pain after relatively short distances), while climbing stairs got much harder as I got heavier, biking (and swimming!) honestly never felt that way to me, at least not for normal roundtrip distances around ten kilometers or so. I use bikes to get to places, to move throughout the world, not for sports. And for that you don’t need to that fit. And with an e-bike? That required fitness drops even lower. (Unfit seniors getting stuck somewhere in the alps with their rented e-bikes is a real classic …)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

micromacrofoot 4y ago

Can you cite a source on "significant" here? because it sounds very made up. Most people that can walk can ride a bike. Most people can walk.

Fricken 4y ago
And Motorized Wheelchairs are micromobility. Cycling infrastructure is well suited to them.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  Though to be completely fair, some parts of the US don't even have pedestrian infrastructure. It's amazing how poorly planned much of the country is.

panick21_ 4y ago

Its ridiculous to call it a 'radical infrastructure investment'. The Us already made all the radical infrastructure investment in their absurdly over-designed roads. Some idiotic cities in the South even have 12 feet road lanes when 9-10 is already enough. The US has the needed infrastructure, converting to an elite bike lane network is incredibly cheap. In fact it saves a huge amount of money. Far less costly accidents, healthier people, better business in the city, higher property rights and so on. This has been proven over and over again. Its just in the US where even liberals seem to just buy the car industry marketing hook, line, and sinker. It has been proven also, that once there is safe bicycle infrastructure, people will bike. And most people can bike just fine. In fact, because children can actually bike, its actually more accessible to the population then cars. There are even these people, they are called poor people, that also might have a bike but not a car. At some point people have to break out of it and think about these things with logic and consider the last 30 years of evidence, rather then 1960s propaganda.