7 ms·

Agree with the premise here. Not sure what the attraction of downtown urban areas are anymore. I live about 2.5 hours from Chicago... and it is a shell of its

Agree with the premise here. Not sure what the attraction of downtown urban areas are anymore. I live about 2.5 hours from Chicago... and it is a shell of its former self. Crime is a real problem. What is the draw anymore? Expensive, overly regulated, poor public education, crime, poor public transportation...

Swizec 4y ago
> Not sure what the attraction of downtown urban areas are anymore I like the part where they're not the suburbs. Dreadful places those. Can you imagine living in a cookie cutter house surrounded by a useless plot of land that you aren't even allowed to use and where every other person is just a cookie cutter version of yourself? Dreadful. Cities feel alive. It's great.
- bluSCALE4 4y ago
  Some suburbs are nice. Many are awful, like the ones in Austin, TX. Soulless.
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    Almost all of the new ones are like that. Go look around Phoenix. And they look "nice" for a brief period. Just wait until the legacy costs catch up with them. If you go look at the older master-planned communities in far-flung suburbs, they look as bad if not worse than any urban blight.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      > Just wait until the legacy costs catch up with them. How long do we have to wait for that? Going on 120 years here, still doing okay.
      - HEmanZ 4y ago
        A pre-war suburb is an entirely different thing than a burb built in the 80s. Generally, urbanists love the prewar burb in America, their criticisms are of the postwar burbs.
        rootusrootus 4y ago
        What is the infrastructure difference?
        HEmanZ 4y ago
        The one sentence gist is that they were built to be more walkable (not everyone had a car) and people used land more diversely (most of our crazy zoning wasn’t invented yet). How it looks in practice is a fun rabbit hole to go down.
        miguelazo 4y ago
        Also fewer fugly prefab commercial buildings and strip malls hosting lame chain businesses that send all of their profits out of town.
- splitstud 4y ago
  [dead]
- pookha 4y ago
  I live on a suburban pipe-stem that connects to a trail system which itself connects to multiple lakes and the neigborhood pool. In the backyard I've got a zip line\trampoline for the kids and my dog can go wild. There hasn't been crime in my neighborhood for thirty years. During the fall I have campfires with my kids...Is that really dreadful? If people look they can find some paradise-like environments in the suburbs.
  - Swizec 4y ago
    > There hasn't been crime in my neighborhood for thirty years Oh come now. Not a single little tax evasion, domestic dispute, custody case, HOA rules violation, improperly maintained vehicle, or DUI in 30 years? Not even a noise violation from a motorcycle with after market exhausts? I don’t believe it.
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      Reminds me when drivers complain about cyclists breaking the rules of the road all the time without the self awareness that they break the speed limit every day.
    - pookha 4y ago
      Welcome to Northern Virginia. Everybody has a security clearance :)
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > Can you imagine living in a cookie cutter house surrounded by a useless plot of land that you aren't even allowed to use and where every other person is just a cookie cutter version of yourself? Then... don't? Many of us live in suburban cities that do not match that description at all, and love it. If you want to live in a dense urban environment, go for it. I think all the noise and human waste would be dreadful, but I can't speak for you.
  - Swizec 4y ago
    > Many of us live in suburban cities that do not match that description at all Yep. And most city neighborhoods don’t at all match the charicature that people in these discussions imagine every city to be.
bluSCALE4 4y ago
Chicago has bad optics and also, 2.5h from Chicago is rural Illinois. Their public trans is decent, especially if you're commuting in. You have Metra, CTA bus and rail. Sure, some are inefficient and there are transit dead zones but the spots that work are amazing. Cycling has improved a ton. Also, education sucks everywhere. I wish I had more experience with charter schools. I demoed one a few years back and it was radically different than anything I've seen. Kids were moving, listening to music, reading. It was nuts and this was in the Austin area, a neighborhood I'd consider ghetto. I'd imagine I'd of thrived in that environment. As for crime, again, it's an optics thing. There's been a surge of certain crimes and one offs but the only times I've been victimized in the city was because I was being a privileged idiot like being oblivious on the Green Line, getting off the Blue Line on Cicero and walking around or being confrontational. Other than that, I've always flown under the radar and was never once victimized in Little Village. As for over regulation, will all the changes I've seen in the city, it's hard to say what regulations you're talking about. If it's the Wrigleyville hotel you're thinking, good. Screw that. Soldier Field should have also not happened. Glad that the George Lucas museum never happened. I think all Chicagoans can agree on this. As for expense, it's expensive everywhere. I know I can't get a good haircut outside of the city so at least when it comes to food and haircuts, I get my money's worth. Parking we can blame on Delay for the next 100 years.
- floren 4y ago
  > the only times I've been victimized in the city was because I was being a privileged idiot like being oblivious on the Green Line, getting off the Blue Line on Cicero and walking around or being confrontational. It's your fault for being victimized because... you let down your guard for a bit, and you walked around in a place? edit: seriously if there's an area you can't walk around in safely, it's a problem with the area, not with you.
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  This just reminds me of the mayor of London saying terrorist attacks are just "part and parcel of living in a big city" or the mayor of SF saying the tent cities and drugs are a feature, not a bug. If at any point you're being victimized for "existing in a part of the city", that's a problem! The bar doesn't need to be so low that as long as you aren't murdered it's "just an optics problem".
082349872349872 4y ago
Expensive just means that you are part of one economy and people in the city are part of another.

Swizec 4y ago

> Not sure what the attraction of downtown urban areas are anymore I like the part where they're not the suburbs. Dreadful places those. Can you imagine living in a cookie cutter house surrounded by a useless plot of land that you aren't even allowed to use and where every other person is just a cookie cutter version of yourself? Dreadful. Cities feel alive. It's great.

bluSCALE4 4y ago
Some suburbs are nice. Many are awful, like the ones in Austin, TX. Soulless.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  Almost all of the new ones are like that. Go look around Phoenix. And they look "nice" for a brief period. Just wait until the legacy costs catch up with them. If you go look at the older master-planned communities in far-flung suburbs, they look as bad if not worse than any urban blight.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    > Just wait until the legacy costs catch up with them. How long do we have to wait for that? Going on 120 years here, still doing okay.
    - HEmanZ 4y ago
      A pre-war suburb is an entirely different thing than a burb built in the 80s. Generally, urbanists love the prewar burb in America, their criticisms are of the postwar burbs.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        What is the infrastructure difference?
        HEmanZ 4y ago
        The one sentence gist is that they were built to be more walkable (not everyone had a car) and people used land more diversely (most of our crazy zoning wasn’t invented yet). How it looks in practice is a fun rabbit hole to go down.
        miguelazo 4y ago
        Also fewer fugly prefab commercial buildings and strip malls hosting lame chain businesses that send all of their profits out of town.
splitstud 4y ago
[dead]
pookha 4y ago
I live on a suburban pipe-stem that connects to a trail system which itself connects to multiple lakes and the neigborhood pool. In the backyard I've got a zip line\trampoline for the kids and my dog can go wild. There hasn't been crime in my neighborhood for thirty years. During the fall I have campfires with my kids...Is that really dreadful? If people look they can find some paradise-like environments in the suburbs.
- Swizec 4y ago
  > There hasn't been crime in my neighborhood for thirty years Oh come now. Not a single little tax evasion, domestic dispute, custody case, HOA rules violation, improperly maintained vehicle, or DUI in 30 years? Not even a noise violation from a motorcycle with after market exhausts? I don’t believe it.
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    Reminds me when drivers complain about cyclists breaking the rules of the road all the time without the self awareness that they break the speed limit every day.
  - pookha 4y ago
    Welcome to Northern Virginia. Everybody has a security clearance :)
rootusrootus 4y ago
> Can you imagine living in a cookie cutter house surrounded by a useless plot of land that you aren't even allowed to use and where every other person is just a cookie cutter version of yourself? Then... don't? Many of us live in suburban cities that do not match that description at all, and love it. If you want to live in a dense urban environment, go for it. I think all the noise and human waste would be dreadful, but I can't speak for you.
- Swizec 4y ago
  > Many of us live in suburban cities that do not match that description at all Yep. And most city neighborhoods don’t at all match the charicature that people in these discussions imagine every city to be.

bluSCALE4 4y ago

Chicago has bad optics and also, 2.5h from Chicago is rural Illinois. Their public trans is decent, especially if you're commuting in. You have Metra, CTA bus and rail. Sure, some are inefficient and there are transit dead zones but the spots that work are amazing. Cycling has improved a ton. Also, education sucks everywhere. I wish I had more experience with charter schools. I demoed one a few years back and it was radically different than anything I've seen. Kids were moving, listening to music, reading. It was nuts and this was in the Austin area, a neighborhood I'd consider ghetto. I'd imagine I'd of thrived in that environment. As for crime, again, it's an optics thing. There's been a surge of certain crimes and one offs but the only times I've been victimized in the city was because I was being a privileged idiot like being oblivious on the Green Line, getting off the Blue Line on Cicero and walking around or being confrontational. Other than that, I've always flown under the radar and was never once victimized in Little Village. As for over regulation, will all the changes I've seen in the city, it's hard to say what regulations you're talking about. If it's the Wrigleyville hotel you're thinking, good. Screw that. Soldier Field should have also not happened. Glad that the George Lucas museum never happened. I think all Chicagoans can agree on this. As for expense, it's expensive everywhere. I know I can't get a good haircut outside of the city so at least when it comes to food and haircuts, I get my money's worth. Parking we can blame on Delay for the next 100 years.

floren 4y ago
> the only times I've been victimized in the city was because I was being a privileged idiot like being oblivious on the Green Line, getting off the Blue Line on Cicero and walking around or being confrontational. It's your fault for being victimized because... you let down your guard for a bit, and you walked around in a place? edit: seriously if there's an area you can't walk around in safely, it's a problem with the area, not with you.
eldritch_4ier 4y ago
This just reminds me of the mayor of London saying terrorist attacks are just "part and parcel of living in a big city" or the mayor of SF saying the tent cities and drugs are a feature, not a bug. If at any point you're being victimized for "existing in a part of the city", that's a problem! The bar doesn't need to be so low that as long as you aren't murdered it's "just an optics problem".

082349872349872 4y ago

Expensive just means that you are part of one economy and people in the city are part of another.