5 ms·

Donald Trump Under Arrest

28 points by smaslennikov 4y ago

infamouscow 4y ago
I only see this backfiring in the most unexpected and hilarious way possible. I certainly hope everyone cheering for this has considered the possibility of what happens if nothing comes of this case and Trump wins in 2024.
- jfengel 4y ago
  Are you suggesting that he would use his executive authority to punish people for cheering that he was arrested? I would consider that an absolute bar to him being elected, regardless of who he would punish. The fact that many people would approve of that mis-use of power -- perhaps enough to get him elected -- implies that democracy itself has failed. Of course such people also seem convinced that the indictment here is faulty -- either that he's not guilty of the crimes, or that they are petty, and are only being prosecuted for political reasons. So from their point of view, democracy has already failed. Which is what he's been telling them for three years.
  - infamouscow 4y ago
    From a red vs blue politics perspective, team blue should not be surprised if a vindictive Trump uses this precedent to go after Biden and Obama for equally stupid nonsense.
anigbrowl 4y ago
The arraignment seems to be taking a lot longer than these things usually go. Wisely, the judge decided not to have cameras running the courtroom to limit the potential for theatrics, but the specific charges are not yet in the public eye until the proceeding is over. The case # is 71543-23 and paper copies of the indictment have been released to reporters, so it'll probably be available in the next hour or two. Reporters who were in court said it's a barebones indictment with 34 felony (class E) counts of falsifying business records, along with a 'statement of facts' summarizing the case. No gag orders from the court, but judge admonished both parties to restrain their rhetoric in public statements. Update, here's the indictment: https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donal... ...and the statement of facts: https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donal...
PaulHoule 4y ago
He's not "under arrest", he's been indicted. He was free to leave after the hearing.
- _8j50 4y ago
  He was remanded to police custody. He is under arrest until the judge releases him on his own recognizance.
  - Zanneth 4y ago
    I don’t understand. How is he under arrest if he was able to leave right after?
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      Since this was carefully planned he was arraigned right after being arrested.
_8j50 4y ago
So much for equality under law. People spend weeks without being released on their own recognizance even for petty traffic violations. Handcuffs, orange suits and sleeping on concrete for days for the rest of us. Why bother to begin with? Which in your opinion is worse? The guilty getting away with their crimes or being punished unequally with high profile defendants getting the "white glove" treatment and a joke of a sentence? Delayed justice is better than an open mockery of it like this. If he is accused of a crime treat him like any criminal would get treated in that situation and jurisdiction(assuring his safety of course by giving him a private cell and allowing secret service). If he is guilty then his prior role as president or his wealth and age should not be a factor in sentencing. It shouldn't matter how it appears or the riots and outrage and public opinion it might cause.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  Delayed justice is still a disincentive to future people who might try the same tricks. QED. > It shouldn't matter how it appears or... It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. Yeah it sucks. Deal with it. Despair won't make it better.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    > Delayed justice You mean punishment to prevent crime in the future. That isn't justice, is it worth it given the cost? > It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. You don't get what I am saying, yes it matters in a general sense but for the purpose of administering justice it does not matter and it is irrelevant. It isn't despair either what I am saying, I am simply stating the fact that this is injustice being portrayed as justice, a perversion of justice if you will.
    - andrewflnr 4y ago
      What cost is being incurred here that wouldn't be even higher with actual justice? What do you actually want the authorities to do that is both politically feasible and would have a better outcome? If they overreach too hard, we won't even get the punishment, and the precedent is set that it's fine to use the presidency for personal gain. That's the cost that's truly too high.
sillywalk 4y ago
edit apparently unverified in a rolling stone article.
- jeffy90 4y ago
  Where did you see that? I can imagine how all the publicity could work in his favor.

28 points by smaslennikov 4y ago

I only see this backfiring in the most unexpected and hilarious way possible. I certainly hope everyone cheering for this has considered the possibility of what happens if nothing comes of this case and Trump wins in 2024.

jfengel 4y ago
Are you suggesting that he would use his executive authority to punish people for cheering that he was arrested? I would consider that an absolute bar to him being elected, regardless of who he would punish. The fact that many people would approve of that mis-use of power -- perhaps enough to get him elected -- implies that democracy itself has failed. Of course such people also seem convinced that the indictment here is faulty -- either that he's not guilty of the crimes, or that they are petty, and are only being prosecuted for political reasons. So from their point of view, democracy has already failed. Which is what he's been telling them for three years.
- infamouscow 4y ago
  From a red vs blue politics perspective, team blue should not be surprised if a vindictive Trump uses this precedent to go after Biden and Obama for equally stupid nonsense.

anigbrowl 4y ago

The arraignment seems to be taking a lot longer than these things usually go. Wisely, the judge decided not to have cameras running the courtroom to limit the potential for theatrics, but the specific charges are not yet in the public eye until the proceeding is over. The case # is 71543-23 and paper copies of the indictment have been released to reporters, so it'll probably be available in the next hour or two. Reporters who were in court said it's a barebones indictment with 34 felony (class E) counts of falsifying business records, along with a 'statement of facts' summarizing the case. No gag orders from the court, but judge admonished both parties to restrain their rhetoric in public statements. Update, here's the indictment: https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donal... ...and the statement of facts: https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donal...

PaulHoule 4y ago

He's not "under arrest", he's been indicted. He was free to leave after the hearing.

_8j50 4y ago
He was remanded to police custody. He is under arrest until the judge releases him on his own recognizance.
- Zanneth 4y ago
  I don’t understand. How is he under arrest if he was able to leave right after?
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    Since this was carefully planned he was arraigned right after being arrested.

_8j50 4y ago

So much for equality under law. People spend weeks without being released on their own recognizance even for petty traffic violations. Handcuffs, orange suits and sleeping on concrete for days for the rest of us. Why bother to begin with? Which in your opinion is worse? The guilty getting away with their crimes or being punished unequally with high profile defendants getting the "white glove" treatment and a joke of a sentence? Delayed justice is better than an open mockery of it like this. If he is accused of a crime treat him like any criminal would get treated in that situation and jurisdiction(assuring his safety of course by giving him a private cell and allowing secret service). If he is guilty then his prior role as president or his wealth and age should not be a factor in sentencing. It shouldn't matter how it appears or the riots and outrage and public opinion it might cause.

andrewflnr 4y ago
Delayed justice is still a disincentive to future people who might try the same tricks. QED. > It shouldn't matter how it appears or... It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. Yeah it sucks. Deal with it. Despair won't make it better.
- _8j50 4y ago
  > Delayed justice You mean punishment to prevent crime in the future. That isn't justice, is it worth it given the cost? > It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. You don't get what I am saying, yes it matters in a general sense but for the purpose of administering justice it does not matter and it is irrelevant. It isn't despair either what I am saying, I am simply stating the fact that this is injustice being portrayed as justice, a perversion of justice if you will.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    What cost is being incurred here that wouldn't be even higher with actual justice? What do you actually want the authorities to do that is both politically feasible and would have a better outcome? If they overreach too hard, we won't even get the punishment, and the precedent is set that it's fine to use the presidency for personal gain. That's the cost that's truly too high.

sillywalk 4y ago

edit apparently unverified in a rolling stone article.

jeffy90 4y ago
Where did you see that? I can imagine how all the publicity could work in his favor.