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Feature, not a product. Not hating on the founders, but has YC gotten so big it just accepts projects based on keyword matching now?

nico 4y ago
Tons of products have been built on a single great feature. Tons of amazing products have also completely failed to gain traction. In this case, the goal is to build a business. If they can get enough people excited about their offering, it doesn’t matter if you consider it a feature or a product. You are not their target market, and that’s ok.
- alangibson 4y ago
  There are large encumbents in this space that can't be hand waved away with 'not their target market.' FWIW I am their target market. I will use AI powered document editing when Atlassian, Github and Notion integrate it as a feature.
  - autoconfig 4y ago
    Hi Alan. Our target audience is people that write long form content. In order for the product to provide a great user experience for that audience we feel that we need to build an opinionated editor and integrate AI in an opinionated way into that editor. It’s hard for me to see how that is a product inside GitHub or Atlassian. Notion (and others) is undeniably an incumbent that as you say can’t be hand waved away. With that said we are already getting feedback from paying customers that feel we’re better at some things, including a snappier editing experience and a more natural way to interact with the AI portion. I also think our chat integrates in a way that sets us apart. If you really think you are in the target audience I would encourage you to give it a chance. We’re very open to feedback and if there’s anything specific that you think other products are doing better, we want to address it.
    - passwordoops 4y ago
      Hi, When I read the description I immediately thought of Ben Evans talking about how what happens when your entire company is rendered into a feature by an encumbant [0] (FWIW I disagree with his attack on antitrust). So, how are you going to make sure Type survives Microsoft adding ChatGPT to Word, or Substack offering something similar, etc. [0] https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2020/12/21/google-bundling-and-kill-zones https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2020/12/21/google-bu...
  - nico 4y ago
    > FWIW I am their target market. I will use AI powered document editing when Atlassian, Github and Notion integrate it as a feature You just contradicted yourself. You said you are the target market and then immediately described why you are not the target market right now. If you are not an early adopter of this thing, or if it doesn't have an immediate application for you, then you are not the target market. Whether you like it or not and whether the project owners know it or not. When you consider it a viable alternative to solve your needs, then you will be their target audience.
schnebbau 4y ago
Also, so many are building their whole business around an API they do not control. They are one OpenAI decision away from being deleted.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  People said the same about iOS apps, but some of those companies were eventually purchased for billions. In general, if you want guaranteed success this is the wrong industry for you. Sometimes you've just got to accept the risk.
- tin7in 4y ago
  There are alternative models and with something like langchain you could swap them or run multiple in parallel.
- punnerud 4y ago
  It’s now start to exist open source versions of ChatGPT and competitors, so I don’t think this is going to be a significant risk in 1-2years
  - alangibson 4y ago
    So far it's looking like OpenAI will have a surprisingly shallow moat. Open source is already right on its heels. Midjourney is killing it in image generation with 11 employees. Then in a few years Apple will do what it does and step in to make billions off of a nearly mature technology.
    - sebzim4500 4y ago
      Is it looking like that? They are still way ahead of Google, yet alone the open source alternatives. Of course things could change quickly.
- WalterSear 4y ago
  OpenAI may remain the leader in the space, but there plenty of alternatives already. Give it a another minute or two and the alternatives will be as good as the current GPT4.
punnerud 4y ago
YC accepts about 2% of the ones applying, and plan for only 2% to become home runs. I like this idea. So simple, but a great product on top of ChatGPT (Cited from one of the lates YouTube videos, don’t remember which one)

nico 4y ago

Tons of products have been built on a single great feature. Tons of amazing products have also completely failed to gain traction. In this case, the goal is to build a business. If they can get enough people excited about their offering, it doesn’t matter if you consider it a feature or a product. You are not their target market, and that’s ok.

alangibson 4y ago
There are large encumbents in this space that can't be hand waved away with 'not their target market.' FWIW I am their target market. I will use AI powered document editing when Atlassian, Github and Notion integrate it as a feature.
- autoconfig 4y ago
  Hi Alan. Our target audience is people that write long form content. In order for the product to provide a great user experience for that audience we feel that we need to build an opinionated editor and integrate AI in an opinionated way into that editor. It’s hard for me to see how that is a product inside GitHub or Atlassian. Notion (and others) is undeniably an incumbent that as you say can’t be hand waved away. With that said we are already getting feedback from paying customers that feel we’re better at some things, including a snappier editing experience and a more natural way to interact with the AI portion. I also think our chat integrates in a way that sets us apart. If you really think you are in the target audience I would encourage you to give it a chance. We’re very open to feedback and if there’s anything specific that you think other products are doing better, we want to address it.
  - passwordoops 4y ago
    Hi, When I read the description I immediately thought of Ben Evans talking about how what happens when your entire company is rendered into a feature by an encumbant [0] (FWIW I disagree with his attack on antitrust). So, how are you going to make sure Type survives Microsoft adding ChatGPT to Word, or Substack offering something similar, etc. [0] https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2020/12/21/google-bundling-and-kill-zones https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2020/12/21/google-bu...
- nico 4y ago
  > FWIW I am their target market. I will use AI powered document editing when Atlassian, Github and Notion integrate it as a feature You just contradicted yourself. You said you are the target market and then immediately described why you are not the target market right now. If you are not an early adopter of this thing, or if it doesn't have an immediate application for you, then you are not the target market. Whether you like it or not and whether the project owners know it or not. When you consider it a viable alternative to solve your needs, then you will be their target audience.

schnebbau 4y ago

Also, so many are building their whole business around an API they do not control. They are one OpenAI decision away from being deleted.

sebzim4500 4y ago
People said the same about iOS apps, but some of those companies were eventually purchased for billions. In general, if you want guaranteed success this is the wrong industry for you. Sometimes you've just got to accept the risk.
tin7in 4y ago
There are alternative models and with something like langchain you could swap them or run multiple in parallel.
punnerud 4y ago
It’s now start to exist open source versions of ChatGPT and competitors, so I don’t think this is going to be a significant risk in 1-2years
- alangibson 4y ago
  So far it's looking like OpenAI will have a surprisingly shallow moat. Open source is already right on its heels. Midjourney is killing it in image generation with 11 employees. Then in a few years Apple will do what it does and step in to make billions off of a nearly mature technology.
  - sebzim4500 4y ago
    Is it looking like that? They are still way ahead of Google, yet alone the open source alternatives. Of course things could change quickly.
WalterSear 4y ago
OpenAI may remain the leader in the space, but there plenty of alternatives already. Give it a another minute or two and the alternatives will be as good as the current GPT4.

punnerud 4y ago

YC accepts about 2% of the ones applying, and plan for only 2% to become home runs. I like this idea. So simple, but a great product on top of ChatGPT (Cited from one of the lates YouTube videos, don’t remember which one)