4 ms·

Right on. Merit is much more than SAT scores and GPA. It is, in fact, whatever the school wants it to be.

by geogra4 15y ago

vecter 15y ago
Surely merit does not include race?
- hackinthebochs 15y ago
  Merit can include a consideration of race. One factor of merit is being an outlier of your group. There are many ways to analyze a given population that reveals different clusters. Being an outlier of this cluster is a factor in merit. The question is, is race a relevant dimension to consider? At face value, the answer is no. But in the US at least, race is a proxy to many other factors that are extremely hard to quantify. These hard to quantify factors are relevant in determining who "deserves" a spot at your prestigious school. Thus a consideration of race within specific contexts can be relevant, college admissions being one of them.
- gte910h 15y ago
  That isn't at all what I was saying, but the idea that two IDENTICAL students with nothing other than one being white and the other being asian would require 200 more SAT score points to get in is inaccurate. As a class, the students who applied who happened to be asian are probably lacking in other areas as well if this BIG of a bias is being seen. Perhaps there aren't enough participation in volunteering/jobs/sports. Perhaps there isn't a good relationship in the alumni interviews, who knows. There may STILL be a racial bias on top of that, however I'm guessing not 200 points worth of pure racial bias.
tesseractive 15y ago
Plus, standardized test scores have a significant income bias. Affluent kids get SAT prep and can take the SAT multiple times if they're unsatisfied in their scores. And I don't have any data, but my guess is that there's a negative correlation between how many hours per week that you are employed while attending high school and your GPA. These factors may be part of the consideration when accounting for lower quantitative admissions requirements for black and hispanic applicants, and those from lower income brackets in general.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  Studies which aren't funded by Kaplan tend to show a minimal effect due to test prep. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124278685697537839.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124278685697537839.html Also, bringing up income when defending racial preferences is disingenuous. If colleges wanted to discriminate by income, they would. Fun fact: income is not the cause of racial gaps in educational performance. It plays a role, but the gap exists even holding income constant. http://www.umich.edu/~rdytolrn/pathwaysconference/presentations/craig.pdf http://www.umich.edu/~rdytolrn/pathwaysconference/presentati... http://www.jstor.org/pss/2963200 http://www.jstor.org/pss/2963200

Right on. Merit is much more than SAT scores and GPA. It is, in fact, whatever the school wants it to be.

by geogra4 15y ago

Right on. Merit is much more than SAT scores and GPA. It is, in fact, whatever the school wants it to be.

vecter 15y ago

Surely merit does not include race?

hackinthebochs 15y ago
Merit can include a consideration of race. One factor of merit is being an outlier of your group. There are many ways to analyze a given population that reveals different clusters. Being an outlier of this cluster is a factor in merit. The question is, is race a relevant dimension to consider? At face value, the answer is no. But in the US at least, race is a proxy to many other factors that are extremely hard to quantify. These hard to quantify factors are relevant in determining who "deserves" a spot at your prestigious school. Thus a consideration of race within specific contexts can be relevant, college admissions being one of them.
gte910h 15y ago
That isn't at all what I was saying, but the idea that two IDENTICAL students with nothing other than one being white and the other being asian would require 200 more SAT score points to get in is inaccurate. As a class, the students who applied who happened to be asian are probably lacking in other areas as well if this BIG of a bias is being seen. Perhaps there aren't enough participation in volunteering/jobs/sports. Perhaps there isn't a good relationship in the alumni interviews, who knows. There may STILL be a racial bias on top of that, however I'm guessing not 200 points worth of pure racial bias.

tesseractive 15y ago

Plus, standardized test scores have a significant income bias. Affluent kids get SAT prep and can take the SAT multiple times if they're unsatisfied in their scores. And I don't have any data, but my guess is that there's a negative correlation between how many hours per week that you are employed while attending high school and your GPA. These factors may be part of the consideration when accounting for lower quantitative admissions requirements for black and hispanic applicants, and those from lower income brackets in general.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
Studies which aren't funded by Kaplan tend to show a minimal effect due to test prep. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124278685697537839.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124278685697537839.html Also, bringing up income when defending racial preferences is disingenuous. If colleges wanted to discriminate by income, they would. Fun fact: income is not the cause of racial gaps in educational performance. It plays a role, but the gap exists even holding income constant. http://www.umich.edu/~rdytolrn/pathwaysconference/presentations/craig.pdf http://www.umich.edu/~rdytolrn/pathwaysconference/presentati... http://www.jstor.org/pss/2963200 http://www.jstor.org/pss/2963200