5 ms·

The problem is a bit deeper than just addiction. It is manipulation and social engineering of a young and exploitable group. This is the new kind of scam and ma

The problem is a bit deeper than just addiction. It is manipulation and social engineering of a young and exploitable group. This is the new kind of scam and many people are ill-equipped to deal with them, just like how some people were weak to nigerian prince scams once upon a time. When people sincerely said something like: "I have crypto and tesla stocks, I am rich and don't need to work", there are more problems to solve than just gambling addiction.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sneak 4y ago
I think the correct way to frame this is that a foolish person squandered their money (something that happens every day in every country) rather than a young, impressionable would-be victim got sucked in by predatory messaging. Otherwise we have to close all the Louis Vuitton stores. They didn't get scammed, they just blew all their cash. Adults are allowed to do stupid things with their money, it's almost never a crime (nor a tragedy) when it happens.
- galaxytachyon 4y ago
  As a society, we should look out for the vulnerable part of our population. The example with high fashion brands is on point though, but I also absolutely detest paying extra to have a logo on my stuff so it doesn't really resonate with me. High fashion is also marketed toward specific classes of people, those with the means and ability to afford them. Meme stocks and cryptos are geared toward small retail traders who don't really have much in the first place. One of these will cause more damage than the other to its targets.
  - sneak 4y ago
    > Meme stocks and cryptos are geared toward small retail traders who don't really have much in the first place. I don't know anyone blowing money on meme stocks or sketchy cryptos that isn't also blowing money on equally wasteful designer "fashion". I don't think they are "geared toward" anyone or anything.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    > those with the means and ability to afford them. * those who want to appear to have the means and ability to afford them.
  - lytefm 4y ago
    > As a society, we should look out for the vulnerable part of our population. Having read a bit about the neuropsychology of gambling addiction, I agree. Slot machines are specifically designed to turn those who are susceptible to it into addicts. Some people simply don't have the mental capabilities to distinguish a legit investment from a scam. Maybe some kind of authorization should be required if you try to wire your life savings to a crypto exchange. But banks only ever ask questions if a lot of money comes in, not when it flows out :D
    - sneak 4y ago
      > But banks only ever ask questions if a lot of money comes in, not when it flows out :D This is false. My bank made my rent payment late this month by freezing a wire (identical to dozens of others I have sent) because my client geoIP is in Japan.
- jfengel 4y ago
  They're allowed to do stupid things with their own money, but not with other people's money. If you walk into a bank and say "I want to borrow $76,000 to buy a massively overpriced piece of luxury fashion," they're going to send you on your way. If you log into a web site and say, "I want to borrow $76,000 to buy a meme stock", they'll hand it to you and ask if you want to borrow more. They will require collateral, but will accept other meme stocks that could collapse at an moment. The bank would give you a loan for a fancy bag if you backed it with your house, but far less likely if your collateral is a bunch of over-inflated stocks. We can't, and probably shouldn't, protect people from blowing all their own cash. But it should be possible to prevent them from leveraging themselves into destitution. Not only is it bad for them, it's bad for the system as a whole, because it leads to crashes even of seemingly unrelated parts of the system.
nly 4y ago
They're exploitable because they're economically desperate. The current generation is totally fucked over wrt the cost of education, health, property and pensions.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Some are, but others, personal friends even, aren't able to be honest with themselves. They're the type who're smart enough to rationalize themselves into gambling, but not smart enough to rationalize themselves out of it. Reading about stocks, and hype is fun. Reading 10-Ks and building risk models is not. Even nudging them in that direction is met with the skepticism and ridicule of responses like "Why would I do that?" as if suggesting the idea of doing actual financial analysis has made me grow a second head.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > They're exploitable because they're economically desperate. I can look around my coworkers, and... they're not economically desperate at all. Still got a meme-stonks problem though. Its just untreated gambling addictions. These people are willing to lose tons of money on the off-chance of calling someone else "wrong".
- lytefm 4y ago
  > They're exploitable because they're economically desperate. 2.5k € after taxes doesn't really count as economically desperate in Germany, I'd say. Sure, housing is expensive - especially in Munich - but education and health isn't. This is another hype-driven mania where some people gamble away their money. This guy could have just as well played roulette and bet 50k on a number. I wonder if any kind of investor/debitor protection would help in these cases. How did he get those loans? Why would a bank approve a 1.5k down payment with just 2.8k income after taxes, leaving just 1.3k for rent and food in Munich? Might be OK when buying a flat - but for gambling on the stock market? Should more verification be required for risky or high volume trades? I just need to check some boxes with "yeah, I know that stuff" and I could trade derivatives + options with leverage.
exolymph 4y ago
There are infinite people telling you to do any given dumb thing. Most of us manage alright regardless. People still fall for Nigerian prince scams, it just isn't novel anymore.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sneak 4y ago

I think the correct way to frame this is that a foolish person squandered their money (something that happens every day in every country) rather than a young, impressionable would-be victim got sucked in by predatory messaging. Otherwise we have to close all the Louis Vuitton stores. They didn't get scammed, they just blew all their cash. Adults are allowed to do stupid things with their money, it's almost never a crime (nor a tragedy) when it happens.

galaxytachyon 4y ago
As a society, we should look out for the vulnerable part of our population. The example with high fashion brands is on point though, but I also absolutely detest paying extra to have a logo on my stuff so it doesn't really resonate with me. High fashion is also marketed toward specific classes of people, those with the means and ability to afford them. Meme stocks and cryptos are geared toward small retail traders who don't really have much in the first place. One of these will cause more damage than the other to its targets.
- sneak 4y ago
  > Meme stocks and cryptos are geared toward small retail traders who don't really have much in the first place. I don't know anyone blowing money on meme stocks or sketchy cryptos that isn't also blowing money on equally wasteful designer "fashion". I don't think they are "geared toward" anyone or anything.
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  > those with the means and ability to afford them. * those who want to appear to have the means and ability to afford them.
- lytefm 4y ago
  > As a society, we should look out for the vulnerable part of our population. Having read a bit about the neuropsychology of gambling addiction, I agree. Slot machines are specifically designed to turn those who are susceptible to it into addicts. Some people simply don't have the mental capabilities to distinguish a legit investment from a scam. Maybe some kind of authorization should be required if you try to wire your life savings to a crypto exchange. But banks only ever ask questions if a lot of money comes in, not when it flows out :D
  - sneak 4y ago
    > But banks only ever ask questions if a lot of money comes in, not when it flows out :D This is false. My bank made my rent payment late this month by freezing a wire (identical to dozens of others I have sent) because my client geoIP is in Japan.
jfengel 4y ago
They're allowed to do stupid things with their own money, but not with other people's money. If you walk into a bank and say "I want to borrow $76,000 to buy a massively overpriced piece of luxury fashion," they're going to send you on your way. If you log into a web site and say, "I want to borrow $76,000 to buy a meme stock", they'll hand it to you and ask if you want to borrow more. They will require collateral, but will accept other meme stocks that could collapse at an moment. The bank would give you a loan for a fancy bag if you backed it with your house, but far less likely if your collateral is a bunch of over-inflated stocks. We can't, and probably shouldn't, protect people from blowing all their own cash. But it should be possible to prevent them from leveraging themselves into destitution. Not only is it bad for them, it's bad for the system as a whole, because it leads to crashes even of seemingly unrelated parts of the system.

nly 4y ago

They're exploitable because they're economically desperate. The current generation is totally fucked over wrt the cost of education, health, property and pensions.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
Some are, but others, personal friends even, aren't able to be honest with themselves. They're the type who're smart enough to rationalize themselves into gambling, but not smart enough to rationalize themselves out of it. Reading about stocks, and hype is fun. Reading 10-Ks and building risk models is not. Even nudging them in that direction is met with the skepticism and ridicule of responses like "Why would I do that?" as if suggesting the idea of doing actual financial analysis has made me grow a second head.
dragontamer 4y ago
> They're exploitable because they're economically desperate. I can look around my coworkers, and... they're not economically desperate at all. Still got a meme-stonks problem though. Its just untreated gambling addictions. These people are willing to lose tons of money on the off-chance of calling someone else "wrong".
lytefm 4y ago
> They're exploitable because they're economically desperate. 2.5k € after taxes doesn't really count as economically desperate in Germany, I'd say. Sure, housing is expensive - especially in Munich - but education and health isn't. This is another hype-driven mania where some people gamble away their money. This guy could have just as well played roulette and bet 50k on a number. I wonder if any kind of investor/debitor protection would help in these cases. How did he get those loans? Why would a bank approve a 1.5k down payment with just 2.8k income after taxes, leaving just 1.3k for rent and food in Munich? Might be OK when buying a flat - but for gambling on the stock market? Should more verification be required for risky or high volume trades? I just need to check some boxes with "yeah, I know that stuff" and I could trade derivatives + options with leverage.

exolymph 4y ago

There are infinite people telling you to do any given dumb thing. Most of us manage alright regardless. People still fall for Nigerian prince scams, it just isn't novel anymore.