4 ms·

Corporations can safely be assumed to be evil until proven otherwise.

by flangola7 4y ago

vlovich123 4y ago
Innocent until proven guilty is a bedrock of American justice, no?
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Corporations aren't people.
  - Out_of_Characte 4y ago
    Groups of people aren't people by that logic
    - vlovich123 4y ago
      That’s right, the group itself isn’t. It s a collective action. Ultimately, the legal fiction was created to avoid having to create new rules but it creates all sorts of problems because corporations and groups in general are more like political parties and governments where they’re made up of subgroups with their own agendas and those subgroups have their own individuals with their agendas. For example, if a corporation mass poisons people, no one typically goes to jail and instead the corporation pays a fine, very similar to what would happen if the government did that (see Flint and what PG&E did in Hinkley). You can put people in jail. You can’t put a corporation in jail and the corporate veil is insanely strong against getting pierced which causes all kinds of moral hazards.
  - vlovich123 4y ago
    No they’re not. Which means you’re willing to color a group of people as guilty by default. Is that better?
    - dns_snek 4y ago
      Absolutely. When a corporation has a track record of being guilty and engaging in anti-consumer behavior (which, let's face it, is most of them), they lose the presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion.
      - vlovich123 4y ago
        > When a corporation That’s not what was said which is that ALL corporations should be presumed to be doing this unless proven otherwise.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  Only when physically in the court room. Everywhere else it's pretty much guilty once accused.
- flangola7 4y ago
  > Innocent until proven guilty is a bedrock of American justice, no? When someone keeps violating their parole you start asking them to justify why you shouldn't send them back to jail. We're past the trial phase. The guilt of corporations has already long been established over the past 100+ years. Furthermore, I am not the government and am not required to give them the presumption of innocence. On a personal note, my great-great-grandfather didn't die shooting Pinkertons for nothing.

Corporations can safely be assumed to be evil until proven otherwise.

vlovich123 4y ago

Innocent until proven guilty is a bedrock of American justice, no?

mrguyorama 4y ago
Corporations aren't people.
- Out_of_Characte 4y ago
  Groups of people aren't people by that logic
  - vlovich123 4y ago
    That’s right, the group itself isn’t. It s a collective action. Ultimately, the legal fiction was created to avoid having to create new rules but it creates all sorts of problems because corporations and groups in general are more like political parties and governments where they’re made up of subgroups with their own agendas and those subgroups have their own individuals with their agendas. For example, if a corporation mass poisons people, no one typically goes to jail and instead the corporation pays a fine, very similar to what would happen if the government did that (see Flint and what PG&E did in Hinkley). You can put people in jail. You can’t put a corporation in jail and the corporate veil is insanely strong against getting pierced which causes all kinds of moral hazards.
- vlovich123 4y ago
  No they’re not. Which means you’re willing to color a group of people as guilty by default. Is that better?
  - dns_snek 4y ago
    Absolutely. When a corporation has a track record of being guilty and engaging in anti-consumer behavior (which, let's face it, is most of them), they lose the presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion.
    - vlovich123 4y ago
      > When a corporation That’s not what was said which is that ALL corporations should be presumed to be doing this unless proven otherwise.
lesuorac 4y ago
Only when physically in the court room. Everywhere else it's pretty much guilty once accused.
flangola7 4y ago
> Innocent until proven guilty is a bedrock of American justice, no? When someone keeps violating their parole you start asking them to justify why you shouldn't send them back to jail. We're past the trial phase. The guilt of corporations has already long been established over the past 100+ years. Furthermore, I am not the government and am not required to give them the presumption of innocence. On a personal note, my great-great-grandfather didn't die shooting Pinkertons for nothing.