5 ms·

I'd like to see data go all the way back to 2020, which was when some people said had the worst job market, because of the global lockdowns. But thanks for the

by muzani 4y ago

I'd like to see data go all the way back to 2020, which was when some people said had the worst job market, because of the global lockdowns. But thanks for the data anyway. It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. Another thing to consider is that we've had layoffs recently, i.e. people without jobs encouraged to find new jobs. In the past, wants-to-be-hired may be a little low because usually people don't want to be seen looking for a job while employed.

red-iron-pine 4y ago
It had the worst job market -- if you weren't able to work from home. Most of the world ain't in STEM. Many of us, myself included, already did that. I had to wear a mask to do my "morning commute" to get coffee, but otherwise my 9-5 was mostly the same.
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  Most of STEM isn't at home, either.
prottog 4y ago
> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. In my area, many businesses outside of the tech sector is actively hiring and can't find enough people. I think Covid triggered a demographic shift with many Boomers retiring (or dying) and that gap has not been filled.
- incone123 4y ago
  This is an interesting contrast with another comment that said it should be possible to find another tech job if (among other factors) the candidate was not too old.
- ShadowBanThis01 4y ago
  Given that Boomers are around 80, I suspect most of them were already retired.
  - richiebful1 4y ago
    1946-1964 (the US Census definition of boomers) is "around 80" at the high end. My dad's a boomer, he's still working.
    - ShadowBanThis01 4y ago
      Yeah, I don't really subscribe to this seemingly ever-expanding definition of "Baby Boomers." It was supposed to be babies born in the euphoria right after WWII, but now extends for 20 years. The ever-expanding "millennials" label is even more absurd. It originally meant people graduating college around 2000: a very specific group. Now, again, it has blown up to include decades of people. After Boomers, all the labels are just idiotic. Let's all just refer to age groups using [gasp] numbers.
      - sangnoir 4y ago
        > It originally meant people graduating college around 2000: This is not how generational cohorts work. AFAIK, what counts as a generation can refer to people born over from 10, and up to 33 year period depending on who you ask. "Millennial" is not precise term, it simply refers to people younger than Gen X and older than Gen Z.
        ShadowBanThis01 4y ago
        Eh, I remember when this was coined, and it was specifically about people graduating college at the millennium. Granted, I thought then (and still think) this was a weird benchmark to use. But the whole thing is dumb.
        sangnoir 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dayvid 4y ago
A few months into the pandemic was one of the best job markets for tech as more people were online than ever. A lot of my coworkers jumped to different companies or startups with huge salary bumps.
- muzani 4y ago
  I benefited from that too, but The Great Resignation happened in 2021 I believe. Which was followed by layoffs from the overhiring, lol But there was some data on HN about how the start of the pandemic was terrible, worse than last year, at least. And there were some sales graphs that reflected this too.
peruvian 4y ago
I think a lot of people don't post on who wants to be hired and instead just browse who's hiring.
- TheGeminon 4y ago
  Thats also balanced by the fact that many postings are for multiple positions (though I would probably still tip it towards more job seekers)
- muzani 4y ago
  I did both but had much better responses on WWTBH. A lot of the companies that approached were really good, paid well, respectful, etc. Funny enough, I had actually applied for one of those companies elsewhere and they didn't process the application until they realized I was on HN.
  - Atlas22 4y ago
    Thanks for sharing this, I always figured the contacts in WWTBH would be mostly low quality (similar to recruiter spam) so never bothered before. But now that I actually think about it some of the best jobs I've ever had were companies that approached me.
  - zeven7 4y ago
    > they didn't process the application until they realized I was on HN I have been on the other side of that. I hired guy I found on HN (one of the best guys I've ever worked with) and later discovered he had applied earlier through another source but I overlooked it (some sources for candidates can be an absolute fire hose).
  - jonpurdy 4y ago
    Similar, last time I was looking (2020) I posted in both and had good responses from quality companies. Basically any HN thread has yielded vastly better opportunities than anywhere else (direct apply, linkedin, etc).
throwawaysleep 4y ago
> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. Is it? Unemployment is still incredibly low and labour shortages continue to be reported.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Incredibly low unemployment doesn't necessarily mean all good news for all workers. You can cut or reduce unemployment benefits, and with the massive increase in CoL, energy and food in the last couple of years, people will desperate enough to accept any job or even several jobs in parallel, no matter how bad they are, and boom, you have almost no unemployment. Sure, there isn't a shortage of jobs, but they also don't pay terribly great either considering the CoL increases. So, IMHO, some unemployment is good. It means people have options and are not desperate enough to quickly jump to places with bad pay or poor working conditions, as those will always exit, even when the economy is doing good.
Herval_freire 4y ago
>It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. No 0.94 is a sample that comes with a huge margin or error. It very well could be that the actual ratio is that there are more programmers then jobs.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Jobs and salaries are also not interchangeable. One can believe (rightly or wrongly) that many developers who have mainstream skills/experience, a good resume & network, aren't too old, etc. can land a new job in a reasonable length of time--while acknowledging that it may be at a total compensation dip if they were with a high-paying company.
mortenjorck 4y ago
> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs I would definitely not read that from the data. I don’t know what percentage of current seekers post in the wants-to-be-hired thread, but as a potentially-outlying anecdote, I didn’t until I had already been looking for three months. I would hypothesize that there’s a psychological barrier to posting in WWTBH, even if you’ve been laid off and have no current employer you wouldn’t want seeing it – there’s a certain vulnerability in putting yourself out there versus privately applying to jobs. For me, it took a certain level of desperation with my search to make the jump from browsing the hiring thread to finally posting in the other thread this month.
- onionisafruit 4y ago
  This is my first month looking. I thought about posting yesterday, but I am very shy about putting my name on the internet. That insecurity won the day. I hope you get good results from your post.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Did you get anything from your "who wants to be hired" post? It's not been clear to me that it's a useful thing to do.
  - mightybyte 4y ago
    I have received a referral bonus that traced directly back to a "who is hiring" post. Haven't posted on "who wants to be hired" though.
  - matttb 4y ago
    I just got a lot of spam email until I asked the mods to delete my post and the spam vanished
  - recfab 4y ago
    I posted last month and didn't hear anything from it. I'm hoping this month is more fruitful.
  - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
comfypotato 4y ago
Also consider that HN isn’t exactly indicative of any typical job market. This is a pretty niche forum even in the context of software and tech. It’s still interesting, and there’s insight to be gained. (For example, I expect a lot the the high-powered developers who were affected by recent layoffs in big tech are over-represented here.)
roncesvalles 4y ago
>people don't want to be seen looking for a job while employed IMO this is the biggest factor causing the slowdown in tech hiring. Right now people just want to stay put wherever they are. In the past when someone jumps to another company, it opens a headcount where they were, which gets filled with someone who also jumped another company, which caused a headcount to be created there, ad infinitum causing a constant cacophony of job postings, like a "velocity" of jobs akin to velocity of money. The combination of slack in the system (unemployed people being hired), low attrition, and some backfills not being done creates a giant dampener on the velocity.
ipaddr 4y ago
1/2 the companies posting jobs are not really hiring. There may be positions available if someone wows them or if they can find talent for cheap. The languages in demand change is probably more interesting. Less react positions, rails holding strong, python over taking, first time no php jobs offered.
- jonnycoder 4y ago
  I suspect this is the case as well. I've been applying for senior software engineer positions since mid January and I have way more auto-declines the next day after applying than I do initial phone calls with the company recruiter. I have a decent mix of experience and results in Python, C++ embedded, NodeJS, NoSQL dbs and CI/CD and I typically match 80% of the requirements+bonus requirements. One company even said last week that they liked my background because of the scope of work/results compared to faang resumes (I only have 2nd tier tech company experience).
UlisesAC4 4y ago
> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. I am sure that there is a huge margin of error. I have been looking a job for 5 months. Granted, I have not used Who's hiring threads religiously and I am sure that there are positions that I applied where something with better qualifications was chosen.
ed_balls 4y ago
I've compiles a list from 2015 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1350A5KGgmGI3Ed-tC7MPx2BgZiXknWLHWlmOAai063g/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1350A5KGgmGI3Ed-tC7MP...
pcthrowaway 4y ago
To post in the WWTBH thread, you need to share your contact info, and probably some information about yourself, so it can't be an anon account. Which means, if you're employed and looking elsewhere, you have to be comfortable with your employer potentially discovering your eye is wandering. Which I for one, definitely wouldn't want to do right now. So I imagine the WWTBH posts are really just the tip of the iceberg (there may be more than one employed person looking for every unemployed one that feels comfortable posting there) Compared to the Who is Hiring posts which companies have no reason to be concerned about posting (well, maybe if they're simultaneously laying off and pretending that they need to reduce headcount when it's really about reducing the average wage)

by muzani 4y ago

red-iron-pine 4y ago

It had the worst job market -- if you weren't able to work from home. Most of the world ain't in STEM. Many of us, myself included, already did that. I had to wear a mask to do my "morning commute" to get coffee, but otherwise my 9-5 was mostly the same.

dimitrios1 4y ago
Most of STEM isn't at home, either.

prottog 4y ago

> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. In my area, many businesses outside of the tech sector is actively hiring and can't find enough people. I think Covid triggered a demographic shift with many Boomers retiring (or dying) and that gap has not been filled.

incone123 4y ago
This is an interesting contrast with another comment that said it should be possible to find another tech job if (among other factors) the candidate was not too old.
ShadowBanThis01 4y ago
Given that Boomers are around 80, I suspect most of them were already retired.
- richiebful1 4y ago
  1946-1964 (the US Census definition of boomers) is "around 80" at the high end. My dad's a boomer, he's still working.
  - ShadowBanThis01 4y ago
    Yeah, I don't really subscribe to this seemingly ever-expanding definition of "Baby Boomers." It was supposed to be babies born in the euphoria right after WWII, but now extends for 20 years. The ever-expanding "millennials" label is even more absurd. It originally meant people graduating college around 2000: a very specific group. Now, again, it has blown up to include decades of people. After Boomers, all the labels are just idiotic. Let's all just refer to age groups using [gasp] numbers.
    - sangnoir 4y ago
      > It originally meant people graduating college around 2000: This is not how generational cohorts work. AFAIK, what counts as a generation can refer to people born over from 10, and up to 33 year period depending on who you ask. "Millennial" is not precise term, it simply refers to people younger than Gen X and older than Gen Z.
      - ShadowBanThis01 4y ago
        Eh, I remember when this was coined, and it was specifically about people graduating college at the millennium. Granted, I thought then (and still think) this was a weird benchmark to use. But the whole thing is dumb.
        sangnoir 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dayvid 4y ago

A few months into the pandemic was one of the best job markets for tech as more people were online than ever. A lot of my coworkers jumped to different companies or startups with huge salary bumps.

muzani 4y ago
I benefited from that too, but The Great Resignation happened in 2021 I believe. Which was followed by layoffs from the overhiring, lol But there was some data on HN about how the start of the pandemic was terrible, worse than last year, at least. And there were some sales graphs that reflected this too.

peruvian 4y ago

I think a lot of people don't post on who wants to be hired and instead just browse who's hiring.

TheGeminon 4y ago
Thats also balanced by the fact that many postings are for multiple positions (though I would probably still tip it towards more job seekers)
muzani 4y ago
I did both but had much better responses on WWTBH. A lot of the companies that approached were really good, paid well, respectful, etc. Funny enough, I had actually applied for one of those companies elsewhere and they didn't process the application until they realized I was on HN.
- Atlas22 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing this, I always figured the contacts in WWTBH would be mostly low quality (similar to recruiter spam) so never bothered before. But now that I actually think about it some of the best jobs I've ever had were companies that approached me.
- zeven7 4y ago
  > they didn't process the application until they realized I was on HN I have been on the other side of that. I hired guy I found on HN (one of the best guys I've ever worked with) and later discovered he had applied earlier through another source but I overlooked it (some sources for candidates can be an absolute fire hose).
- jonpurdy 4y ago
  Similar, last time I was looking (2020) I posted in both and had good responses from quality companies. Basically any HN thread has yielded vastly better opportunities than anywhere else (direct apply, linkedin, etc).

throwawaysleep 4y ago

> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. Is it? Unemployment is still incredibly low and labour shortages continue to be reported.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Incredibly low unemployment doesn't necessarily mean all good news for all workers. You can cut or reduce unemployment benefits, and with the massive increase in CoL, energy and food in the last couple of years, people will desperate enough to accept any job or even several jobs in parallel, no matter how bad they are, and boom, you have almost no unemployment. Sure, there isn't a shortage of jobs, but they also don't pay terribly great either considering the CoL increases. So, IMHO, some unemployment is good. It means people have options and are not desperate enough to quickly jump to places with bad pay or poor working conditions, as those will always exit, even when the economy is doing good.

Herval_freire 4y ago

>It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. No 0.94 is a sample that comes with a huge margin or error. It very well could be that the actual ratio is that there are more programmers then jobs.

ghaff 4y ago
Jobs and salaries are also not interchangeable. One can believe (rightly or wrongly) that many developers who have mainstream skills/experience, a good resume & network, aren't too old, etc. can land a new job in a reasonable length of time--while acknowledging that it may be at a total compensation dip if they were with a high-paying company.

mortenjorck 4y ago

> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs I would definitely not read that from the data. I don’t know what percentage of current seekers post in the wants-to-be-hired thread, but as a potentially-outlying anecdote, I didn’t until I had already been looking for three months. I would hypothesize that there’s a psychological barrier to posting in WWTBH, even if you’ve been laid off and have no current employer you wouldn’t want seeing it – there’s a certain vulnerability in putting yourself out there versus privately applying to jobs. For me, it took a certain level of desperation with my search to make the jump from browsing the hiring thread to finally posting in the other thread this month.

onionisafruit 4y ago
This is my first month looking. I thought about posting yesterday, but I am very shy about putting my name on the internet. That insecurity won the day. I hope you get good results from your post.
jrochkind1 4y ago
Did you get anything from your "who wants to be hired" post? It's not been clear to me that it's a useful thing to do.
- mightybyte 4y ago
  I have received a referral bonus that traced directly back to a "who is hiring" post. Haven't posted on "who wants to be hired" though.
- matttb 4y ago
  I just got a lot of spam email until I asked the mods to delete my post and the spam vanished
- recfab 4y ago
  I posted last month and didn't hear anything from it. I'm hoping this month is more fruitful.
- 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

comfypotato 4y ago

Also consider that HN isn’t exactly indicative of any typical job market. This is a pretty niche forum even in the context of software and tech. It’s still interesting, and there’s insight to be gained. (For example, I expect a lot the the high-powered developers who were affected by recent layoffs in big tech are over-represented here.)

roncesvalles 4y ago

>people don't want to be seen looking for a job while employed IMO this is the biggest factor causing the slowdown in tech hiring. Right now people just want to stay put wherever they are. In the past when someone jumps to another company, it opens a headcount where they were, which gets filled with someone who also jumped another company, which caused a headcount to be created there, ad infinitum causing a constant cacophony of job postings, like a "velocity" of jobs akin to velocity of money. The combination of slack in the system (unemployed people being hired), low attrition, and some backfills not being done creates a giant dampener on the velocity.

ipaddr 4y ago

1/2 the companies posting jobs are not really hiring. There may be positions available if someone wows them or if they can find talent for cheap. The languages in demand change is probably more interesting. Less react positions, rails holding strong, python over taking, first time no php jobs offered.

jonnycoder 4y ago
I suspect this is the case as well. I've been applying for senior software engineer positions since mid January and I have way more auto-declines the next day after applying than I do initial phone calls with the company recruiter. I have a decent mix of experience and results in Python, C++ embedded, NodeJS, NoSQL dbs and CI/CD and I typically match 80% of the requirements+bonus requirements. One company even said last week that they liked my background because of the scope of work/results compared to faang resumes (I only have 2nd tier tech company experience).

UlisesAC4 4y ago

> It does amuse me that we're still at more people hiring than looking for jobs. It's a stark contrast to other industries, where the power is normally in the hands of employers. I am sure that there is a huge margin of error. I have been looking a job for 5 months. Granted, I have not used Who's hiring threads religiously and I am sure that there are positions that I applied where something with better qualifications was chosen.

ed_balls 4y ago

I've compiles a list from 2015 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1350A5KGgmGI3Ed-tC7MPx2BgZiXknWLHWlmOAai063g/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1350A5KGgmGI3Ed-tC7MP...

pcthrowaway 4y ago

To post in the WWTBH thread, you need to share your contact info, and probably some information about yourself, so it can't be an anon account. Which means, if you're employed and looking elsewhere, you have to be comfortable with your employer potentially discovering your eye is wandering. Which I for one, definitely wouldn't want to do right now. So I imagine the WWTBH posts are really just the tip of the iceberg (there may be more than one employed person looking for every unemployed one that feels comfortable posting there) Compared to the Who is Hiring posts which companies have no reason to be concerned about posting (well, maybe if they're simultaneously laying off and pretending that they need to reduce headcount when it's really about reducing the average wage)