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> Common examples include presentations, diagrams, and ticket management. Ticket management is stuff that needs doing, obviously. Diagrams are illustrations;

> Common examples include presentations, diagrams, and ticket management. Ticket management is stuff that needs doing, obviously. Diagrams are illustrations; if something is so complicated it can only be understood with a picture, it's too complicated. But a quick diagram on a whiteboard (or with a pencil on the back of a fag packet) might be helpful. Presentations (with slide-decks) are for managers[0], not engineers. They are a huge drain on time. I got severely dinged by my manager for doing a presentation without a slide-deck; I hadn't prepared one, because I had real work to do. But I think I showed my manager up, because all the other engineers had turned up with slide decks. A crap slide deck is quick to make, and completely useless. A really good slide deck can take days to make; it's a specialist trade, like making good user documentation. Slides must augment the presentation, not distract from it. [0] I've been forced into formal management once or twice; my experience was that at least half of management is bragging to other managers about how important your team is, and slide decks are great for that.

danaris 4y ago
> if something is so complicated it can only be understood with a picture, it's too complicated Absolutes like this contribute significantly, depending on the perspective they're spoken from, to the anti-intellectualism in our society today, or to a culture of elitism. For the first, some things are complex, and that complexity is part of the real-life systems and structures they have to interface with or represent. Explaining complex things with a diagram can be an extremely effective method for making what might otherwise require a very high cognitive load much easier to process. And for the second, if someone needs a diagram to understand something complex, it's not because they're stupid, and insisting that everything worth explaining can—and must—be explained in text only does them a disservice.
- knsv 4y ago
  I find that I write most diagrams for myself as a reader. It takes much less time to get an overview some logic I have not touched in a while when there is a diagram to start with. Once I remember the big picture I dig deeper via the code.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > to the anti-intellectualism in our society today, or to a culture of elitism. It wasn't meant to be an absolute, it is just a rule of thumb, and for me. I expressed it that way for rhetorical purposes. I don't think retreating to real language is anti-intellectual; but you may be right that it's elitist to mistrust stories told in pictures. Anti-intellectuals mistrust stories told in words.
- ptx 4y ago
  It seems like a good rule of thumb though. Here's a diagram of the 11 different tools you need to study to create an installer with WiX, which takes literally thousands of lines of XML: https://documentation.help/WiX-Toolset/tools.html https://documentation.help/WiX-Toolset/tools.html By contrast, WiX# provides a complete code sample that specifies a complete installer in less than 20 lines, with no diagram necessary: https://github.com/oleg-shilo/wixsharp https://github.com/oleg-shilo/wixsharp
  - danaris 4y ago
    You seem to be arguing that the existence of one bad diagram and one (related) good text explanation proves that, in general, needing a diagram is bad, and being able to explain something succinctly and clearly in text proves the merit of the thing being explained. I...do not feel that this follows in any way, either as an absolute or as a rule of thumb.
    - ptx 4y ago
      In my personal opinion as a user, usage of WiX is extremely complicated (requiring multiple different tools, thousands of lines of XML, understanding of the incomprehensible MSI database format as well as the multiple levels of inscrutable macro substitution WiX puts on top of it, and so on). The documentation presents a diagram of the 11 different tools involved (which I'm not saying is a "bad diagram"). Usage of WiX-sharp (which wraps and hides the mess decribed above) is so simple that a complete sample project is just a few lines of code, as shown in the README. There is no diagram because none is needed. This is consistent with (but doesn't prove as a general rule) the idea that "if something is so complicated it can only be understood with a picture, it's too complicated"

danaris 4y ago

> if something is so complicated it can only be understood with a picture, it's too complicated Absolutes like this contribute significantly, depending on the perspective they're spoken from, to the anti-intellectualism in our society today, or to a culture of elitism. For the first, some things are complex, and that complexity is part of the real-life systems and structures they have to interface with or represent. Explaining complex things with a diagram can be an extremely effective method for making what might otherwise require a very high cognitive load much easier to process. And for the second, if someone needs a diagram to understand something complex, it's not because they're stupid, and insisting that everything worth explaining can—and must—be explained in text only does them a disservice.

knsv 4y ago
I find that I write most diagrams for myself as a reader. It takes much less time to get an overview some logic I have not touched in a while when there is a diagram to start with. Once I remember the big picture I dig deeper via the code.
denton-scratch 4y ago
> to the anti-intellectualism in our society today, or to a culture of elitism. It wasn't meant to be an absolute, it is just a rule of thumb, and for me. I expressed it that way for rhetorical purposes. I don't think retreating to real language is anti-intellectual; but you may be right that it's elitist to mistrust stories told in pictures. Anti-intellectuals mistrust stories told in words.
ptx 4y ago
It seems like a good rule of thumb though. Here's a diagram of the 11 different tools you need to study to create an installer with WiX, which takes literally thousands of lines of XML: https://documentation.help/WiX-Toolset/tools.html https://documentation.help/WiX-Toolset/tools.html By contrast, WiX# provides a complete code sample that specifies a complete installer in less than 20 lines, with no diagram necessary: https://github.com/oleg-shilo/wixsharp https://github.com/oleg-shilo/wixsharp
- danaris 4y ago
  You seem to be arguing that the existence of one bad diagram and one (related) good text explanation proves that, in general, needing a diagram is bad, and being able to explain something succinctly and clearly in text proves the merit of the thing being explained. I...do not feel that this follows in any way, either as an absolute or as a rule of thumb.
  - ptx 4y ago
    In my personal opinion as a user, usage of WiX is extremely complicated (requiring multiple different tools, thousands of lines of XML, understanding of the incomprehensible MSI database format as well as the multiple levels of inscrutable macro substitution WiX puts on top of it, and so on). The documentation presents a diagram of the 11 different tools involved (which I'm not saying is a "bad diagram"). Usage of WiX-sharp (which wraps and hides the mess decribed above) is so simple that a complete sample project is just a few lines of code, as shown in the README. There is no diagram because none is needed. This is consistent with (but doesn't prove as a general rule) the idea that "if something is so complicated it can only be understood with a picture, it's too complicated"