4 ms·

Very true. Though it's good to remember the Soviet Union did even worse things to Russia.

pas 4y ago
I have trouble parsing that. However, the important thing would be to accept the facts, try to process them, and move forward. Of course that's not so easy. (It's not like the US did it. Or that Germany did it super well.)
go13 4y ago
russia and soviet union are not too far apart actually. Let's not make victim of poor russians, while so many of them fight now and fought in the past to kill independent nations.
- foverzar 4y ago
  > while so many of them fight now and fought in the past to kill independent nations Let's not pretend it's surrounding is really any better, especially if we start looking at the past. Someone might think that Russia is opposing a genocidal culture, that had bourne fascism and nazism, enforced apartheid over the world and now breeds it elsewhere to achieve its geopolitical goals.
xkcd1963 4y ago
It's true, since the October Revolution the Soviets didn't actually serve their people
- myth_drannon 4y ago
  And before the Revolution, Tsarist regime did even more horrowing things to its people. Sadly Russia never had a ruling entity that was good. Well there was hope in the 80's with Gorbachev and Krushev with his Thaw period, but these were short lived and the system went back to its stable state of terrorizing its citizens.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    The Soviet Union killed between 20-60 million of its own people. Did Tsarist Russia really do anything that competes with that?
    - KptMarchewa 4y ago
      Not the same scale, but yeah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
    - akho 4y ago
      Tsarist Russia enslaved most of its population for centuries.
      - IYasha 4y ago
        You sound nonsensical. Russian government did enslave russian population?? Just remember that "coincidentally" the whole Romanov (that's a stage name) family are germans. And official history is even more coincidentally was (over)written by germans.
      - BurningFrog 4y ago
        I think we can agree that it's better to be a slave than to be murdered? The Soviet Union also made extensive use of slave labor, where millions died.
        yawboakye 4y ago
        nonsense. it's cowardice like this that has left the current world enslaved to whatever is the current fad. there's no disgrace in death but generational disgrace in slavery. learn a little bit of history. you'll learn, for example, how the greeks would rather die on the battlefield than be enslaved. or at least try to figure out why the romans never sued for peace during the second punic war even though they were constantly battered on the battlefield.
kosievdmerwe 4y ago
The problem is that as far as I understand Russia claims to be the successor state of the USSR, meaning they want to claim all its glories (and crimes) Which if true, means that Russian civilian victimization by the Soviet Union is something to hold Russia accountable for rather than a point of mutual past victimization for past Soviet Union states to commiserate together with Russia on. That's never mind the fact that Russia is committing some of those same crimes now along with waging an expansionist war. The past suffering of an abuser doesn't matter while he's actively abusing someone else.
KptMarchewa 4y ago
Current russia is direct descendant of Soviet Union with all the priviledges - security council seat, got all the nuclear arms.
lazide 4y ago
Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR. That’s a bit like lamenting that how messed up an abusers knuckles got after hitting it on folks faces for so long.
- foverzar 4y ago
  > Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR The people that were sitting in Moscow however were from all around the Union.
- prepend 4y ago
  I can’t reply to comment under this that claimed that people in Moscow were from all across USSR so I’m replying here. The Soviet Union was still ruled by Russians [0]… “ From 1919 until 1991, 89 members of the Politburo were Russians (which makes up 68 percent). In distant second were Ukrainians, who had 11 members in the Politburo, making up 8 percent. In third place are both ethnic Jews and Georgians, who had 4 members respectively.” It was less than the population since by population , 80% are Russian [1], but still shows that the USSR was ruled by Russians. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo_of_the_Communist_Party_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo_of_the_Communist_Par... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1989) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1989)
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    Not sure those numbers matter, since Stalin had the only vote that mattered 1924-1953. And he happened to be Georgian.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Also, the label Moscovite doesn't require being born there! And Moscovite is indeed a bad word in many parts of the old Union.
  - myth_drannon 4y ago
    Well everyone was "Russian" officially. Khrushov was Ukrainian, same can be said with Gorbachev. Many Armenians. There is a concentrated effort to erase all the contributions of other nations of USSR and make Russians as the only builders and inheritors. And this is different from Tsarist Russia where very few non-Russains were allowed to rise in the ranks. That's why large part of Communist movement was comprised from minorities since they were the ones who suffered more from the brutal Tsarist regime.

pas 4y ago

I have trouble parsing that. However, the important thing would be to accept the facts, try to process them, and move forward. Of course that's not so easy. (It's not like the US did it. Or that Germany did it super well.)

go13 4y ago

russia and soviet union are not too far apart actually. Let's not make victim of poor russians, while so many of them fight now and fought in the past to kill independent nations.

foverzar 4y ago
> while so many of them fight now and fought in the past to kill independent nations Let's not pretend it's surrounding is really any better, especially if we start looking at the past. Someone might think that Russia is opposing a genocidal culture, that had bourne fascism and nazism, enforced apartheid over the world and now breeds it elsewhere to achieve its geopolitical goals.

xkcd1963 4y ago

It's true, since the October Revolution the Soviets didn't actually serve their people

myth_drannon 4y ago
And before the Revolution, Tsarist regime did even more horrowing things to its people. Sadly Russia never had a ruling entity that was good. Well there was hope in the 80's with Gorbachev and Krushev with his Thaw period, but these were short lived and the system went back to its stable state of terrorizing its citizens.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  The Soviet Union killed between 20-60 million of its own people. Did Tsarist Russia really do anything that competes with that?
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Not the same scale, but yeah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
  - akho 4y ago
    Tsarist Russia enslaved most of its population for centuries.
    - IYasha 4y ago
      You sound nonsensical. Russian government did enslave russian population?? Just remember that "coincidentally" the whole Romanov (that's a stage name) family are germans. And official history is even more coincidentally was (over)written by germans.
    - BurningFrog 4y ago
      I think we can agree that it's better to be a slave than to be murdered? The Soviet Union also made extensive use of slave labor, where millions died.
      - yawboakye 4y ago
        nonsense. it's cowardice like this that has left the current world enslaved to whatever is the current fad. there's no disgrace in death but generational disgrace in slavery. learn a little bit of history. you'll learn, for example, how the greeks would rather die on the battlefield than be enslaved. or at least try to figure out why the romans never sued for peace during the second punic war even though they were constantly battered on the battlefield.

kosievdmerwe 4y ago

The problem is that as far as I understand Russia claims to be the successor state of the USSR, meaning they want to claim all its glories (and crimes) Which if true, means that Russian civilian victimization by the Soviet Union is something to hold Russia accountable for rather than a point of mutual past victimization for past Soviet Union states to commiserate together with Russia on. That's never mind the fact that Russia is committing some of those same crimes now along with waging an expansionist war. The past suffering of an abuser doesn't matter while he's actively abusing someone else.

KptMarchewa 4y ago

Current russia is direct descendant of Soviet Union with all the priviledges - security council seat, got all the nuclear arms.

lazide 4y ago

Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR. That’s a bit like lamenting that how messed up an abusers knuckles got after hitting it on folks faces for so long.

foverzar 4y ago
> Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR The people that were sitting in Moscow however were from all around the Union.
prepend 4y ago
I can’t reply to comment under this that claimed that people in Moscow were from all across USSR so I’m replying here. The Soviet Union was still ruled by Russians [0]… “ From 1919 until 1991, 89 members of the Politburo were Russians (which makes up 68 percent). In distant second were Ukrainians, who had 11 members in the Politburo, making up 8 percent. In third place are both ethnic Jews and Georgians, who had 4 members respectively.” It was less than the population since by population , 80% are Russian [1], but still shows that the USSR was ruled by Russians. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo_of_the_Communist_Party_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo_of_the_Communist_Par... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1989) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1989)
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  Not sure those numbers matter, since Stalin had the only vote that mattered 1924-1953. And he happened to be Georgian.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Also, the label Moscovite doesn't require being born there! And Moscovite is indeed a bad word in many parts of the old Union.
- myth_drannon 4y ago
  Well everyone was "Russian" officially. Khrushov was Ukrainian, same can be said with Gorbachev. Many Armenians. There is a concentrated effort to erase all the contributions of other nations of USSR and make Russians as the only builders and inheritors. And this is different from Tsarist Russia where very few non-Russains were allowed to rise in the ranks. That's why large part of Communist movement was comprised from minorities since they were the ones who suffered more from the brutal Tsarist regime.