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Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. People in the West really seem to think Ru

Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. People in the West really seem to think Russia invaded to satisfy some vague desire for evil and villainy. People in the West really seem to think NATO and the EU being in a (proxy) war now with Russia over Ukraine disproves Russian concerns. It prevents Russia from attacking Finland Which was never going to happen. Zero reason. Impossible to sell to Russia’s allies on which it so depends, if we believe Western media. (Except now, of course, Finland has gained some nuclear targets on its map, in the event of. That’s the real 5D chess.) So there must be some other punitive quality to a country on the border of Russia becoming part of NATO.

khochesh_kushat 4y ago
This is what all the smart people said about Ukraine prior to the invasion, that it was impossible and would never happen.
- rainworld 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - khochesh_kushat 4y ago
    More just that he wouldn't be so stupid. People just listed all the reasons it was a dumb, short-sighted idea. Which, turns out they were right, except about how stupid Russian leadership was. They seem to have honestly believed it would be a three day war, that Ukrainians were going to welcome them as liberators, and that they actually had all the equipment that they did on paper.
    - rainworld 4y ago
      The “three day war” and the other stuff have always been American talking points that have been regurgitated uncritcally a million times. Yeah, people in the West have been sold the idea that Ukraine is winning (talking about the real Ukrainian losses (not the fantasy numbers you sometimes hear) is strictly forbidded tho), I noticed. Let’s wait till it’s over I say...
      - khochesh_kushat 4y ago
        I guess you don't watch Russian TV? I'm lucky (or maybe unlucky) enough to speak Russian so I have access. They say much more bombastic things than just these points all the time. They have their own reality distortion field over there and it leads them to make terrible decisions. I'm quite certain that Russia is not secretly winning the war, but it's just that nobody can tell because of how great it's going.
        rainworld 4y ago
        Can’t watch Russian TV because the wise rulers of the superstate I reside in prevent me from doing that, for my safety. Not that I’d want to, because I don’t expect good information there either. Thankfully, there are other ways to inform oneself of the course of the war. Well, sounds like the Ukrainian side is about to start it’s much-anticipated Decisive Battle offensive. The overall picture should become clearer once the dust from that has settled.
        gps0 4y ago
        Talking heads on political TV shows are not politicians or affiliated with the government. Them having an intense belief in something does not mean that government officials do.
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    > … and Western support turned his last-minute coercive expedition into full-blown war. His what? Massing a hundred thousand troops on the border isn’t “last minute” and they had their sights set on a (quick) regime change after a shock and awe campaign to force surrender. Do you want an apology or something?
    - rainworld 4y ago
      Another thing people in the West seem to earnestly believe is that this story begins on 2022-02-24 and that the use of military force renders historical context irrelevant. This standard is, of course, never applied to the military adventures of the West. From a Russian perspective, Putin gave Ukraine 8 years to build a competitive army, with extensive NATO help. Back then, Russia could have forced a more serious settlement or regime change fairly easily. Maybe it was necessary to wait, to prepare Russian economy for the inevitable wave of sanctions. (Which, I might add, have failed spectacularly in their original, stated intent of bringing Russia to its knees.) However, it appears that Putin really did hope for the qualified success of settlements as weak as Minsk I/II, or a possible third iteration. Coerced, if necessary. Either way, all that failed and now war is raging and hundreds of thousands of slavs (most of them from Ukraine) are dead, with many more to follow. This is obviously not an outcome that Putin desired. This is, however, an outcome that seems to make some people in the West very happy indeed. “Weakening Russia” is what they call it, gleefully. And they keep pushing, keep stoking the fire. War is peace. However, they deeply, fundamentally miscalculated. That will become very apparent over the next decade.
  - timeon 4y ago
    > last-minute coercive expedition into full-blown war Putin said he will not invade. But he did. Does not matter how you are trying to turn this around. He did invaded and he did lied about it.
    - khochesh_kushat 4y ago
      NATO mind control rays forced him to shoot himself in the foot.
edgyquant 4y ago
No one thinks it disproves their concerns, we all know there is concern is not being able to be push countries around.
happymellon 4y ago
> NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. I thought it was because of Nazis in Ukraine. They just keep changing the message once they get bored and don't even try.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
You sure seem to think you know a lot about the odds of Russia invading Finland. But unless you're privy to Putin's actual strategic plans, I'm going to trust Finland's assessment of the risk more than I'm going to trust yours.

khochesh_kushat 4y ago

This is what all the smart people said about Ukraine prior to the invasion, that it was impossible and would never happen.

rainworld 4y ago
[flagged]
- khochesh_kushat 4y ago
  More just that he wouldn't be so stupid. People just listed all the reasons it was a dumb, short-sighted idea. Which, turns out they were right, except about how stupid Russian leadership was. They seem to have honestly believed it would be a three day war, that Ukrainians were going to welcome them as liberators, and that they actually had all the equipment that they did on paper.
  - rainworld 4y ago
    The “three day war” and the other stuff have always been American talking points that have been regurgitated uncritcally a million times. Yeah, people in the West have been sold the idea that Ukraine is winning (talking about the real Ukrainian losses (not the fantasy numbers you sometimes hear) is strictly forbidded tho), I noticed. Let’s wait till it’s over I say...
    - khochesh_kushat 4y ago
      I guess you don't watch Russian TV? I'm lucky (or maybe unlucky) enough to speak Russian so I have access. They say much more bombastic things than just these points all the time. They have their own reality distortion field over there and it leads them to make terrible decisions. I'm quite certain that Russia is not secretly winning the war, but it's just that nobody can tell because of how great it's going.
      - rainworld 4y ago
        Can’t watch Russian TV because the wise rulers of the superstate I reside in prevent me from doing that, for my safety. Not that I’d want to, because I don’t expect good information there either. Thankfully, there are other ways to inform oneself of the course of the war. Well, sounds like the Ukrainian side is about to start it’s much-anticipated Decisive Battle offensive. The overall picture should become clearer once the dust from that has settled.
      - gps0 4y ago
        Talking heads on political TV shows are not politicians or affiliated with the government. Them having an intense belief in something does not mean that government officials do.
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  > … and Western support turned his last-minute coercive expedition into full-blown war. His what? Massing a hundred thousand troops on the border isn’t “last minute” and they had their sights set on a (quick) regime change after a shock and awe campaign to force surrender. Do you want an apology or something?
  - rainworld 4y ago
    Another thing people in the West seem to earnestly believe is that this story begins on 2022-02-24 and that the use of military force renders historical context irrelevant. This standard is, of course, never applied to the military adventures of the West. From a Russian perspective, Putin gave Ukraine 8 years to build a competitive army, with extensive NATO help. Back then, Russia could have forced a more serious settlement or regime change fairly easily. Maybe it was necessary to wait, to prepare Russian economy for the inevitable wave of sanctions. (Which, I might add, have failed spectacularly in their original, stated intent of bringing Russia to its knees.) However, it appears that Putin really did hope for the qualified success of settlements as weak as Minsk I/II, or a possible third iteration. Coerced, if necessary. Either way, all that failed and now war is raging and hundreds of thousands of slavs (most of them from Ukraine) are dead, with many more to follow. This is obviously not an outcome that Putin desired. This is, however, an outcome that seems to make some people in the West very happy indeed. “Weakening Russia” is what they call it, gleefully. And they keep pushing, keep stoking the fire. War is peace. However, they deeply, fundamentally miscalculated. That will become very apparent over the next decade.
- timeon 4y ago
  > last-minute coercive expedition into full-blown war Putin said he will not invade. But he did. Does not matter how you are trying to turn this around. He did invaded and he did lied about it.
  - khochesh_kushat 4y ago
    NATO mind control rays forced him to shoot himself in the foot.

edgyquant 4y ago

No one thinks it disproves their concerns, we all know there is concern is not being able to be push countries around.

happymellon 4y ago

> NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. I thought it was because of Nazis in Ukraine. They just keep changing the message once they get bored and don't even try.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

You sure seem to think you know a lot about the odds of Russia invading Finland. But unless you're privy to Putin's actual strategic plans, I'm going to trust Finland's assessment of the risk more than I'm going to trust yours.