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Russia literally invaded Finland last century

by thehappypm 4y ago

ElectricalUnion 4y ago
I don't think you can count "non-NATO" when NATO did not exist yet.
- lolinder 4y ago
  The point is that Finland matters a lot to Russia. The border with Finland is huge, geographically hard to defend, and right next to Russia's capitol. Finland's maritime zones join with existing NATO states to block Russia from operating in much of the Baltic (a process that would be completed when Sweden joins). Finland joining NATO is more than a shrug for Russia.
  - Gravityloss 4y ago
    Moscow is nowhere close to Finland. St Petersburg is. Most of Russian border area near Finland is just forest.
    - lolinder 4y ago
      Oops, fair enough—I had just been thinking of older history and forgot that the Bolsheviks moved the capitol. St. Petersburg is still the second-largest city and a major strategic location, but you're right that it's not the capitol.
BurningFrog 4y ago
Finland was also part of Russia until 1917.
- ckrapu 4y ago
  Yeah, and the Finns hated it. My ancestors immigrated to the US to avoid being drafted from Finland into the imperial Russian army.
carlosjobim 4y ago
[flagged]
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Hmm, except Ukraine isn’t in NATO and they’re being occupied. NATO stops occupations.
- dralley 4y ago
  >Yes, and for the same reasons they are invading Ukraine now! They feared German attacks through Finland and decided it was better to invade first, just as they fear American attacks through Ukraine and decided to invade first. Next you'll argue that they feared German attacks through Poland, and that's why they invaded Poland alongside the Germans.
  - carlosjobim 4y ago
    Of course yes. The Soviets and the Nazis were preparing for war with each other long before they jointly attacked Poland. This is a widely known historical fact. Stalin wasn't ready for the war with Germany just yet and bought some time. Invading Poland gave him a buffer zone, instead of having the Germans closer. As for the Finno-Russian war in WWII, just take a look at the map and see how close Finland is to Russia's largest city. Modern wars work like this. Rulers will invade to get a buffer zone between themselves and the enemy. Putin felt cornered by perceived US advances towards Russia and lashed out.
    - dralley 4y ago
      Russia has nukes, they don't need to invade other countries for land buffers, and excusing that behavior (much less the rape, torture, murder of civilians, etc.) is appalling. Moreover it doesn't even mesh with Putin's own stated rationale for the war, which doesn't have much to do with NATO at all.
      - carlosjobim 4y ago

Russia literally invaded Finland last century

ElectricalUnion 4y ago

I don't think you can count "non-NATO" when NATO did not exist yet.

lolinder 4y ago
The point is that Finland matters a lot to Russia. The border with Finland is huge, geographically hard to defend, and right next to Russia's capitol. Finland's maritime zones join with existing NATO states to block Russia from operating in much of the Baltic (a process that would be completed when Sweden joins). Finland joining NATO is more than a shrug for Russia.
- Gravityloss 4y ago
  Moscow is nowhere close to Finland. St Petersburg is. Most of Russian border area near Finland is just forest.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Oops, fair enough—I had just been thinking of older history and forgot that the Bolsheviks moved the capitol. St. Petersburg is still the second-largest city and a major strategic location, but you're right that it's not the capitol.

BurningFrog 4y ago

Finland was also part of Russia until 1917.

ckrapu 4y ago
Yeah, and the Finns hated it. My ancestors immigrated to the US to avoid being drafted from Finland into the imperial Russian army.

carlosjobim 4y ago

[flagged]

thehappypm 4y ago
Hmm, except Ukraine isn’t in NATO and they’re being occupied. NATO stops occupations.
dralley 4y ago
>Yes, and for the same reasons they are invading Ukraine now! They feared German attacks through Finland and decided it was better to invade first, just as they fear American attacks through Ukraine and decided to invade first. Next you'll argue that they feared German attacks through Poland, and that's why they invaded Poland alongside the Germans.
- carlosjobim 4y ago
  Of course yes. The Soviets and the Nazis were preparing for war with each other long before they jointly attacked Poland. This is a widely known historical fact. Stalin wasn't ready for the war with Germany just yet and bought some time. Invading Poland gave him a buffer zone, instead of having the Germans closer. As for the Finno-Russian war in WWII, just take a look at the map and see how close Finland is to Russia's largest city. Modern wars work like this. Rulers will invade to get a buffer zone between themselves and the enemy. Putin felt cornered by perceived US advances towards Russia and lashed out.
  - dralley 4y ago
    Russia has nukes, they don't need to invade other countries for land buffers, and excusing that behavior (much less the rape, torture, murder of civilians, etc.) is appalling. Moreover it doesn't even mesh with Putin's own stated rationale for the war, which doesn't have much to do with NATO at all.
    - carlosjobim 4y ago