5 ms·

Musk has claimed on Twitter that Tesla wasn't allowed to present new evidence, and that the fine would have been 0 with the new evidence. But he says the jury d

Musk has claimed on Twitter that Tesla wasn't allowed to present new evidence, and that the fine would have been 0 with the new evidence. But he says the jury did the best with the given evidence and he respects their decision. I think there is more to the story than CNN reports, also, just because something has been made into a law, it isn't beyond discussion or criticism. There are many bad laws in existence.

bigbillheck 4y ago
Musk claims lots of things on Twitter that aren't true.
- misslibby 4y ago
  Such as?
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    I recommend doing one's own research on this topic; the well is quite deep. Musk's greatest talent is salesmanship; that sometimes divorces from the truth. This can get you started: https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musks-lies-about-tesla-on-twitter-cost-investors-millions-court-told-12789872 https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musks-lies-about-tesla-on-tw...
    - misslibby 4y ago
      Doesn't sound like such a clear cut case. Has the court decided yet?
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        That was just one search result. Again, I recommend doing one's own research. There's a lot to find. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/elon-musk-twitter-terrible-things-hes-said-and-done https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/elon-musk-twitter-te...
        misslibby 4y ago
        The usual list. He clearly isn't a leftist and it angers a lot of people very much that he doesn't automatically follow the leftist commands. Doesn't make him evil or a liar. And for example making a prediction that turns out wrong also isn't a lie. It is just an opinion.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        The lies make him a liar, not his political-spectrum position. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/tesla-shareholder-suit-says-musk-and-co-lied-about-full-self-driving-safety/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/tesla-shareholde...
        misslibby 4y ago
        Lawsuits don't prove he lied.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/22/23474381/elon-musk-twitter-moderation-council-activist-promise https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/22/23474381/elon-musk-twitt... https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1596118994565894145?lang=en https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1596118994565894145?lan... https://seekingalpha.com/article/4020362-who-you-gonna-believe-elon-musks-words-your-own-lying-eyes https://seekingalpha.com/article/4020362-who-you-gonna-belie... You can keep defending him if you want, but the preponderance of evidence is not on his side. On average, I would no longer consider Elon Musk a reliable source.
        misslibby 4y ago
        You are incredible. 1.) he doesn't have to justify reinstating Trump at all. People who banned a sitting president have to justify their actions 2.) Seriously, what the fuck - you want to hold his dying child against him? This is ridiculous nitpicking, you can say "it died in his arms" even if he wasn't holding his child all the time. You should take a long hard look into the mirror and ponder what your irrational hatred does to your personality. 3.) A couple of cars with a tiny discount proves what? A list of 30 cars, with a generously calculated average discount of 3%, out of probably thousands sold? Keep hating, though. Your hatred is irrelevant.
eesmith 4y ago
What lousy lawyers Tesla must have. There were TWO jury trials, and the plaintiff was successful in BOTH of them. There are also many companies with illegally discriminatory workplace environments in existence. Just because "pedo guy" Musk claims something doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. There's always more than what's reported in the news. It's not like we're going to read the court transcripts. Please be specific about what's wrong with this law, otherwise it seems like you are blowing smoke to minimize Tesla's blame. I'll quote from the first opinion at https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-4 https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-4 as a starting point: > The jury heard that the Tesla factory was saturated with racism. Diaz faced frequent racial abuse, including the N-word and other slurs. Other employees harassed him. His supervisors, and Tesla's broader management structure, did little or nothing to respond. And supervisors even joined in on the abuse, one going so far as to threaten Diaz and draw a racist caricature near his workstation. ... > On Diaz's second day of work, Diaz saw the N-word scratched into a bathroom stall. Id. at 401:6-12. Over the course of his employment, more racist bathroom graffiti was added. Id. at 403:5-15. He encountered swastikas and the phrase “death to all [N-words].” ... > The jury, in special verdicts, found that: (1) Tesla subjected Diaz to a racially hostile work environment, (2) Tesla was a joint employer of Diaz, (3) Diaz was subject to a hostile work environment caused by a supervisor, (4) Diaz was subject to a hostile work environment caused by a non-immediate supervisor or co-worker, (5) Tesla committed a civil rights violation in a contractual relationship, (6) Tesla failed to take all reasonable steps necessary to prevent Diaz from being subject to racial harassment, and (7) Tesla negligently supervised or negligently continued to employ Ramon Martinez and that action harmed Diaz. ... > The weight of the evidence is against Tesla's minimization of Diaz's emotional and psychological harm. Diaz testified about the severe consequences he experienced during his time at the factory. See supra Background, Section II.E. Jones similarly testified about the effects on her father. Id. And his psychological expert confirmed all of this, including by performing psychological evaluations to determine whether Diaz was “overreporting” his symptoms. Id. The jury, in short, had ample basis to believe Diaz's testimony that he was severely emotionally harmed. Given that two different jury trials found Diaz's claims valid, what should the law be to prevent this level of hostile workplace environment? If $3 million in punitive damages too large, and you think it a smaller one is more reasonable, how much is enough to deter Telsa from having a hostile work environment in the future?

bigbillheck 4y ago

Musk claims lots of things on Twitter that aren't true.

misslibby 4y ago
Such as?
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  I recommend doing one's own research on this topic; the well is quite deep. Musk's greatest talent is salesmanship; that sometimes divorces from the truth. This can get you started: https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musks-lies-about-tesla-on-twitter-cost-investors-millions-court-told-12789872 https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musks-lies-about-tesla-on-tw...
  - misslibby 4y ago
    Doesn't sound like such a clear cut case. Has the court decided yet?
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      That was just one search result. Again, I recommend doing one's own research. There's a lot to find. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/elon-musk-twitter-terrible-things-hes-said-and-done https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/elon-musk-twitter-te...
      - misslibby 4y ago
        The usual list. He clearly isn't a leftist and it angers a lot of people very much that he doesn't automatically follow the leftist commands. Doesn't make him evil or a liar. And for example making a prediction that turns out wrong also isn't a lie. It is just an opinion.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        The lies make him a liar, not his political-spectrum position. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/tesla-shareholder-suit-says-musk-and-co-lied-about-full-self-driving-safety/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/tesla-shareholde...
        misslibby 4y ago
        Lawsuits don't prove he lied.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/22/23474381/elon-musk-twitter-moderation-council-activist-promise https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/22/23474381/elon-musk-twitt... https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1596118994565894145?lang=en https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1596118994565894145?lan... https://seekingalpha.com/article/4020362-who-you-gonna-believe-elon-musks-words-your-own-lying-eyes https://seekingalpha.com/article/4020362-who-you-gonna-belie... You can keep defending him if you want, but the preponderance of evidence is not on his side. On average, I would no longer consider Elon Musk a reliable source.
        misslibby 4y ago
        You are incredible. 1.) he doesn't have to justify reinstating Trump at all. People who banned a sitting president have to justify their actions 2.) Seriously, what the fuck - you want to hold his dying child against him? This is ridiculous nitpicking, you can say "it died in his arms" even if he wasn't holding his child all the time. You should take a long hard look into the mirror and ponder what your irrational hatred does to your personality. 3.) A couple of cars with a tiny discount proves what? A list of 30 cars, with a generously calculated average discount of 3%, out of probably thousands sold? Keep hating, though. Your hatred is irrelevant.

eesmith 4y ago

What lousy lawyers Tesla must have. There were TWO jury trials, and the plaintiff was successful in BOTH of them. There are also many companies with illegally discriminatory workplace environments in existence. Just because "pedo guy" Musk claims something doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. There's always more than what's reported in the news. It's not like we're going to read the court transcripts. Please be specific about what's wrong with this law, otherwise it seems like you are blowing smoke to minimize Tesla's blame. I'll quote from the first opinion at https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-4 https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-4 as a starting point: > The jury heard that the Tesla factory was saturated with racism. Diaz faced frequent racial abuse, including the N-word and other slurs. Other employees harassed him. His supervisors, and Tesla's broader management structure, did little or nothing to respond. And supervisors even joined in on the abuse, one going so far as to threaten Diaz and draw a racist caricature near his workstation. ... > On Diaz's second day of work, Diaz saw the N-word scratched into a bathroom stall. Id. at 401:6-12. Over the course of his employment, more racist bathroom graffiti was added. Id. at 403:5-15. He encountered swastikas and the phrase “death to all [N-words].” ... > The jury, in special verdicts, found that: (1) Tesla subjected Diaz to a racially hostile work environment, (2) Tesla was a joint employer of Diaz, (3) Diaz was subject to a hostile work environment caused by a supervisor, (4) Diaz was subject to a hostile work environment caused by a non-immediate supervisor or co-worker, (5) Tesla committed a civil rights violation in a contractual relationship, (6) Tesla failed to take all reasonable steps necessary to prevent Diaz from being subject to racial harassment, and (7) Tesla negligently supervised or negligently continued to employ Ramon Martinez and that action harmed Diaz. ... > The weight of the evidence is against Tesla's minimization of Diaz's emotional and psychological harm. Diaz testified about the severe consequences he experienced during his time at the factory. See supra Background, Section II.E. Jones similarly testified about the effects on her father. Id. And his psychological expert confirmed all of this, including by performing psychological evaluations to determine whether Diaz was “overreporting” his symptoms. Id. The jury, in short, had ample basis to believe Diaz's testimony that he was severely emotionally harmed. Given that two different jury trials found Diaz's claims valid, what should the law be to prevent this level of hostile workplace environment? If $3 million in punitive damages too large, and you think it a smaller one is more reasonable, how much is enough to deter Telsa from having a hostile work environment in the future?