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> Google: "Only affected a small number of users." This kind of thinking is so so so wrong. Imagine government saying it won't allow same sex marriage because

> Google: "Only affected a small number of users." This kind of thinking is so so so wrong. Imagine government saying it won't allow same sex marriage because it only affects a small number of citizens, so there is no point to bother or something in similar vein.

paulcole 4y ago
Google isn’t the government. A business gets to decide what service/product to offer and who to offer it to (within the laws of whatever country they’re subject to).
- remram 4y ago
  And we the customers get to be displeased with whatever service they put out, just like with governments. They might not be required by law to be equitable, but we can hold them to it.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    Yes, as consumers/citizens we can disagree with the decisions governments and businesses make and can "hold them to it" to whatever degree we're willing to go to. But the OP's point was that it's wrong for a company to make a choice based on how it'll affect a small number of people just as it's wrong for a government to make a choice based on how it'll affect a small number of people. That is (to me) a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between government and business. Government should be looking out for the least of us, but businesses aren't (and shouldn't be) held to that same standard.
    - remram 4y ago
      Why not? The process we use to hold them to our standard should be different, but why do you believe they shouldn't be held to that standard?
      - paulcole 4y ago
        Why not? Because I believe running a business is about making choices and those choices can include what to sell/offer. As long as you're not actively breaking any laws and/or discriminating, you shouldn't have to offer something you don't want to offer. The grocery store near me doesn't have to carry vegan meats if I'm the only customer who'll buy them.
        remram 4y ago
        Is a government not about making choices? Is a government not constrained by laws? Does a government have to offer services that no citizen will use? I don't understand your distinction at all.
        paulcole 4y ago
        1. I never talked about services nobody will offer. I am talking about looking out for the needs of every individual vs. the individuals you choose to look out for. Think about mail. The government should make sure every person gets mail delivered. FedEx should not have to worry about that. 2. Obviously governments are about choices, but how and why they governments make choices is different from businesses. Remember, a government and a business are two different entities that serve different purposes and have distinct characteristics. Here are some key differences between the two: Purpose: The main purpose of a government is to provide public goods and services to its citizens, maintain law and order, and protect the interests of the state. On the other hand, the main purpose of a business is to generate profit by providing goods and services that satisfy consumer needs. Ownership: Some governments are owned and operated by the people, through elected representatives. A business, on the other hand, is owned and operated by individuals or groups of individuals, who may or may not be accountable to their stakeholders. Source of funding: Governments are funded through taxes, fees, and other charges levied on citizens, whereas businesses are funded through investments, loans, and sales revenues. Control and accountability: (Some) governments are subject to democratic processes that provide checks and balances on their power and ensure accountability to the citizens. Businesses, on the other hand, are subject to market forces and regulatory oversight, but are primarily accountable to their shareholders and investors. Social responsibility: Governments are expected to act in the public interest and promote the welfare of their citizens. Businesses, while expected to operate within the law, are primarily driven by profit maximization and are not necessarily obligated to prioritize social responsibility. Overall, while there may be some overlap between the functions of a government and a business, the two are fundamentally different in terms of their purpose, ownership, funding, accountability, and social responsibility.
    - flangola7 4y ago
      This is a very American attitude. In many nations part of getting a business license is a statement that you will operate with public society's best interests in mind, even if it reduces your specific profitability or business success.
      - paulcole 4y ago
        Yes, I am American. I also believe that the Waffle House shouldn't have to serve pancakes because some of its customers really want pancakes. Waffle House can choose to serve pancakes (or not) based on customer feedback, but I believe there's nothing about "operating with public society's best interests" in forcing Waffle House to serve pancakes.
        flangola7 4y ago
        Enjoying punching that pancake strawman?
londons_explore 4y ago
Governments do say that to more niche things... like for example legally recognising polygamous relationships... Governments generally don't want to make laws about anything that affects less than ~1% of citizens. Gay marriage however is an issue that has tipped over that threshold, with 7.2% of americans considering themselves LGBT.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  And it should't have to be over that arbitrary threshold, because human rights for <1% of the population are still human rights, and all the arguments against gay marriage are unmitigated bigoted bullshit.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

paulcole 4y ago

Google isn’t the government. A business gets to decide what service/product to offer and who to offer it to (within the laws of whatever country they’re subject to).

remram 4y ago
And we the customers get to be displeased with whatever service they put out, just like with governments. They might not be required by law to be equitable, but we can hold them to it.
- paulcole 4y ago
  Yes, as consumers/citizens we can disagree with the decisions governments and businesses make and can "hold them to it" to whatever degree we're willing to go to. But the OP's point was that it's wrong for a company to make a choice based on how it'll affect a small number of people just as it's wrong for a government to make a choice based on how it'll affect a small number of people. That is (to me) a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between government and business. Government should be looking out for the least of us, but businesses aren't (and shouldn't be) held to that same standard.
  - remram 4y ago
    Why not? The process we use to hold them to our standard should be different, but why do you believe they shouldn't be held to that standard?
    - paulcole 4y ago
      Why not? Because I believe running a business is about making choices and those choices can include what to sell/offer. As long as you're not actively breaking any laws and/or discriminating, you shouldn't have to offer something you don't want to offer. The grocery store near me doesn't have to carry vegan meats if I'm the only customer who'll buy them.
      - remram 4y ago
        Is a government not about making choices? Is a government not constrained by laws? Does a government have to offer services that no citizen will use? I don't understand your distinction at all.
        paulcole 4y ago
        1. I never talked about services nobody will offer. I am talking about looking out for the needs of every individual vs. the individuals you choose to look out for. Think about mail. The government should make sure every person gets mail delivered. FedEx should not have to worry about that. 2. Obviously governments are about choices, but how and why they governments make choices is different from businesses. Remember, a government and a business are two different entities that serve different purposes and have distinct characteristics. Here are some key differences between the two: Purpose: The main purpose of a government is to provide public goods and services to its citizens, maintain law and order, and protect the interests of the state. On the other hand, the main purpose of a business is to generate profit by providing goods and services that satisfy consumer needs. Ownership: Some governments are owned and operated by the people, through elected representatives. A business, on the other hand, is owned and operated by individuals or groups of individuals, who may or may not be accountable to their stakeholders. Source of funding: Governments are funded through taxes, fees, and other charges levied on citizens, whereas businesses are funded through investments, loans, and sales revenues. Control and accountability: (Some) governments are subject to democratic processes that provide checks and balances on their power and ensure accountability to the citizens. Businesses, on the other hand, are subject to market forces and regulatory oversight, but are primarily accountable to their shareholders and investors. Social responsibility: Governments are expected to act in the public interest and promote the welfare of their citizens. Businesses, while expected to operate within the law, are primarily driven by profit maximization and are not necessarily obligated to prioritize social responsibility. Overall, while there may be some overlap between the functions of a government and a business, the two are fundamentally different in terms of their purpose, ownership, funding, accountability, and social responsibility.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    This is a very American attitude. In many nations part of getting a business license is a statement that you will operate with public society's best interests in mind, even if it reduces your specific profitability or business success.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      Yes, I am American. I also believe that the Waffle House shouldn't have to serve pancakes because some of its customers really want pancakes. Waffle House can choose to serve pancakes (or not) based on customer feedback, but I believe there's nothing about "operating with public society's best interests" in forcing Waffle House to serve pancakes.
      - flangola7 4y ago
        Enjoying punching that pancake strawman?

londons_explore 4y ago

Governments do say that to more niche things... like for example legally recognising polygamous relationships... Governments generally don't want to make laws about anything that affects less than ~1% of citizens. Gay marriage however is an issue that has tipped over that threshold, with 7.2% of americans considering themselves LGBT.

DonHopkins 4y ago
And it should't have to be over that arbitrary threshold, because human rights for <1% of the population are still human rights, and all the arguments against gay marriage are unmitigated bigoted bullshit.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]