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I have a few issues with e-bikes. 1 - bikes are already great, really cheap, and actually good for you to cycle. We also have an obesity problem in most wester

I have a few issues with e-bikes. 1 - bikes are already great, really cheap, and actually good for you to cycle. We also have an obesity problem in most western countries. 2 - they let inexperienced riders go really fast on bikes that are 3 x heavier. You see so many idiots cycling though red lights at 15mph weaving in and out of pedestrians. If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years

smileysteve 4y ago
Some ebikes have a 6km/hr setting, and they all have brakes. The problem here is the reckless use
jeffbee 4y ago
> they let inexperienced [operators] go really fast Wait until you hear about "cars".
- bagacrap 4y ago
  Arguably you legally must be experienced to operate one
pklausler 4y ago
May I please have your permission to continue enjoying my e-bike? At my advanced age and with my sore old knees, my Tern e-bike allows me to get up and over hills and make longer trips that just aren't possible for me any more with my non-e-bike.
_dain_ 4y ago
>1 - bikes are already great, really cheap, and actually good for you to cycle. We also have an obesity problem in most western countries. Maybe this is another case where things are different in other countries, but: you still have to pedal on an ebike. It's not like a mini-moped where you just twist the throttle and the machine goes forward all by itself, with no work on your part. You have to put in some effort, and the electric motor multiplies that effort. And the motor cuts out above 15.5 mph so if you want to match 20mph traffic you have to make up that remaining 4.5mph by your muscles alone. In my unscientific judgement it feels more strenuous than a brisk walk, less strenuous than jogging. In my experience, most of the benefit is actually at low speeds because of the better acceleration. After waiting at traffic lights I can clear the junction faster from a dead stop, even if I forgot to change gears. So yeah over any particular distance it's less exercise than a normal bike. But in my experience it makes longer distance journeys feasible in the first place, particularly over hills. I use my ebike way more than I ever used a normal bike. It's kind of like that Jevon's Paradox[1] where energy-saving devices encourage people to use more electricity -- my effort-saving bike somehow makes me do more effort overall, from the greater mileage. >2 - they let inexperienced riders go really fast on bikes that are 3 x heavier. You see so many idiots cycling though red lights at 15mph weaving in and out of pedestrians. If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years I can't make broad-brush excuses for cyclists who jump red lights. In most cases it's obviously bad I don't know what the situation is like in your city. But in a few cases I think it's justifiable and I do it shamelessly at particular junctions. Traffic lights commonly detect cars by an induction coil embedded in the road surface. These devices are often not sensitive enough to detect bicycles. So you can end up in a situation where the light will stay red forever for you. In my view that makes the lights defective and it's justifiable to skip them (with extreme care ofc). There are other particular junctions in my city where I do it. These are ones with dedicated bike-triggered lights but they don't always work and have dumb timings, and the layout is peculiar so you can safely cross by hugging close to the pedestrian barriers through a red light on certain phases. It's always faster and just as safe. And some junctions are deathtraps for cyclists whether they go at green or red. I avoid those like the plague. If they are "weaving in and out of pedestrians" this may be a sign the city doesn't have adequate cyclist and pedestrian infrastructure. It is not difficult to design streets so that people walking aren't disturbed by bikes, in fact it's much easier than designing them so that people biking aren't disturbed by cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
hpaavola 4y ago
1) In order to get more people on bikes in most of the world, we either need massive policy changes and infrastructure rework (like much of Netherland has been doing since about 1970 or so) or better bikes. Personally I'm always voting for both, but the first option does not seem possible in most parts. Ebikes might just be enough for many to make the switch easier. 2) Roughly speaking anyone without health issues can ride any bike 15mph. Also, the weight of the bike does not matter that much, as it is anyway way lighter than the rider. 25 pound normal bike vs 55 pound ebike does not make much of a difference given a 180 pound rider.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years That's not good attitude - my grandma isn't gonna get any fitter. If you are going slowly on narrow UK road you get overtaken by double-decker bus with 2 inches of clearence. It's a harrowing experience. Or if you are going uphill and you are concious you arr holding up all trafic Without ebikes, only fit bike enthusiasts ride on the roads
- btrettel 4y ago
  > Without ebikes, only fit bike enthusiasts ride on the roads I've rode bikes for transportation in the US for over a decade now, and I can't agree. My average speed is around 12 mph. That's a bit faster than what you say your speed is in another comment. But it's still much slower than typical motorized vehicle speeds. I don't need to keep up with traffic, just make sure that they drive safely around me. > Or if you are going uphill and you are concious you arr holding up all trafic That's not your problem. In most jurisdictions (in the US, at least), the roads are first come, first served. Don't slow people down more than necessary, of course, but don't worry about it if it's unavoidable. I personally avoid these situations by taking longer routes that have less traffic, and not riding when traffic is heavy or waiting if there's a temporary increase in traffic. > If you are going slowly on narrow UK road you get overtaken by double-decker bus with 2 inches of clearence. It's a harrowing experience. If the lane's not wide enough to share, don't share. Taking the lane as appropriate has greatly improved my safety on the road. I usually ride to the right, but I'll take the lane when necessary for my safety and refuse to apologize for it.
  - ornornor 4y ago
    Cycling in North America is terrifying. Many drivers feel like you re not allowed to use the road and will negligently (or actively) try to kill you because they can and because murder by car is frowned upon but very lightly punished if at all. I’m saying this as someone who has ridden a bicycle in traffic almost daily for years in Montreal and Toronto. It takes nerves of steel and that’s very wrong, but it’s the reality. Try taking the lane when at least one asshole a day will make a point to pass you with 10cm clearance when there is one or two spare lanes they could have used. Or threaten physical harm using their car as a weapon just because you dare make them arrive 15 seconds later at the next red light. I live in a much more civilized country now where it isn’t open season on cyclists and don’t miss it one bit.
himinlomax 4y ago
Euro style ebikes are severely limited in power and speed. The motor stops at 25 km/h. They help a lot climbing hill, but on top of that they make restarting after stopping at a red lights much less taxing and thus encourage riders to respect those.

smileysteve 4y ago

Some ebikes have a 6km/hr setting, and they all have brakes. The problem here is the reckless use

jeffbee 4y ago

> they let inexperienced [operators] go really fast Wait until you hear about "cars".

bagacrap 4y ago
Arguably you legally must be experienced to operate one

pklausler 4y ago

May I please have your permission to continue enjoying my e-bike? At my advanced age and with my sore old knees, my Tern e-bike allows me to get up and over hills and make longer trips that just aren't possible for me any more with my non-e-bike.

_dain_ 4y ago

>1 - bikes are already great, really cheap, and actually good for you to cycle. We also have an obesity problem in most western countries. Maybe this is another case where things are different in other countries, but: you still have to pedal on an ebike. It's not like a mini-moped where you just twist the throttle and the machine goes forward all by itself, with no work on your part. You have to put in some effort, and the electric motor multiplies that effort. And the motor cuts out above 15.5 mph so if you want to match 20mph traffic you have to make up that remaining 4.5mph by your muscles alone. In my unscientific judgement it feels more strenuous than a brisk walk, less strenuous than jogging. In my experience, most of the benefit is actually at low speeds because of the better acceleration. After waiting at traffic lights I can clear the junction faster from a dead stop, even if I forgot to change gears. So yeah over any particular distance it's less exercise than a normal bike. But in my experience it makes longer distance journeys feasible in the first place, particularly over hills. I use my ebike way more than I ever used a normal bike. It's kind of like that Jevon's Paradox[1] where energy-saving devices encourage people to use more electricity -- my effort-saving bike somehow makes me do more effort overall, from the greater mileage. >2 - they let inexperienced riders go really fast on bikes that are 3 x heavier. You see so many idiots cycling though red lights at 15mph weaving in and out of pedestrians. If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years I can't make broad-brush excuses for cyclists who jump red lights. In most cases it's obviously bad I don't know what the situation is like in your city. But in a few cases I think it's justifiable and I do it shamelessly at particular junctions. Traffic lights commonly detect cars by an induction coil embedded in the road surface. These devices are often not sensitive enough to detect bicycles. So you can end up in a situation where the light will stay red forever for you. In my view that makes the lights defective and it's justifiable to skip them (with extreme care ofc). There are other particular junctions in my city where I do it. These are ones with dedicated bike-triggered lights but they don't always work and have dumb timings, and the layout is peculiar so you can safely cross by hugging close to the pedestrian barriers through a red light on certain phases. It's always faster and just as safe. And some junctions are deathtraps for cyclists whether they go at green or red. I avoid those like the plague. If they are "weaving in and out of pedestrians" this may be a sign the city doesn't have adequate cyclist and pedestrian infrastructure. It is not difficult to design streets so that people walking aren't disturbed by bikes, in fact it's much easier than designing them so that people biking aren't disturbed by cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

hpaavola 4y ago

1) In order to get more people on bikes in most of the world, we either need massive policy changes and infrastructure rework (like much of Netherland has been doing since about 1970 or so) or better bikes. Personally I'm always voting for both, but the first option does not seem possible in most parts. Ebikes might just be enough for many to make the switch easier. 2) Roughly speaking anyone without health issues can ride any bike 15mph. Also, the weight of the bike does not matter that much, as it is anyway way lighter than the rider. 25 pound normal bike vs 55 pound ebike does not make much of a difference given a 180 pound rider.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years That's not good attitude - my grandma isn't gonna get any fitter. If you are going slowly on narrow UK road you get overtaken by double-decker bus with 2 inches of clearence. It's a harrowing experience. Or if you are going uphill and you are concious you arr holding up all trafic Without ebikes, only fit bike enthusiasts ride on the roads

btrettel 4y ago
> Without ebikes, only fit bike enthusiasts ride on the roads I've rode bikes for transportation in the US for over a decade now, and I can't agree. My average speed is around 12 mph. That's a bit faster than what you say your speed is in another comment. But it's still much slower than typical motorized vehicle speeds. I don't need to keep up with traffic, just make sure that they drive safely around me. > Or if you are going uphill and you are concious you arr holding up all trafic That's not your problem. In most jurisdictions (in the US, at least), the roads are first come, first served. Don't slow people down more than necessary, of course, but don't worry about it if it's unavoidable. I personally avoid these situations by taking longer routes that have less traffic, and not riding when traffic is heavy or waiting if there's a temporary increase in traffic. > If you are going slowly on narrow UK road you get overtaken by double-decker bus with 2 inches of clearence. It's a harrowing experience. If the lane's not wide enough to share, don't share. Taking the lane as appropriate has greatly improved my safety on the road. I usually ride to the right, but I'll take the lane when necessary for my safety and refuse to apologize for it.
- ornornor 4y ago
  Cycling in North America is terrifying. Many drivers feel like you re not allowed to use the road and will negligently (or actively) try to kill you because they can and because murder by car is frowned upon but very lightly punished if at all. I’m saying this as someone who has ridden a bicycle in traffic almost daily for years in Montreal and Toronto. It takes nerves of steel and that’s very wrong, but it’s the reality. Try taking the lane when at least one asshole a day will make a point to pass you with 10cm clearance when there is one or two spare lanes they could have used. Or threaten physical harm using their car as a weapon just because you dare make them arrive 15 seconds later at the next red light. I live in a much more civilized country now where it isn’t open season on cyclists and don’t miss it one bit.

himinlomax 4y ago

Euro style ebikes are severely limited in power and speed. The motor stops at 25 km/h. They help a lot climbing hill, but on top of that they make restarting after stopping at a red lights much less taxing and thus encourage riders to respect those.