4 ms·

Legally yes, a woman has to cover her upper body while men do not. Where I am you can also control women more in the workplace by mandating impractical shoes li

Legally yes, a woman has to cover her upper body while men do not. Where I am you can also control women more in the workplace by mandating impractical shoes like heels. Pockets, you'd be surprised! Quite often women's blouses, blazers and trousers will have "false pockets" which are just a seam made to look like a pocket, whereas the men's version has actual deep pockets. Makeup and the social expectations around that is also another discussion.

theli0nheart 4y ago
> Legally yes, a woman has to cover her upper body while men do not. In the U.S., female toplessness is illegal in only two states (Tennessee and Missouri). In the rest, legal status is either unclear or it's expressly legal. So as a general statement, this is clearly untrue—it's not illegal everywhere. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_the_United_State...
quonn 4y ago
The trousers I‘m wearing right now have fake pockets at the back. I‘m a man. It has nothing to do with men or women. Many women do not wear makeup. Again, this depends a lot on the country. Many women choose to wear makeup or dress uncomfortably just like many men choose to work out and dress uncomfortably to look more attractive. Many men seemingly invest a lot of time into styling their beard or hair.
quietbritishjim 4y ago
You haven't answered the parent comment's request for your country, which is very relevant as things differ a lot. Here in the UK (which is what the article is about), it is illegal for either (/any) gender to expose their genitals in public [1] - that is called "indecent exposure". Breasts are not genitals and it is not illegal to show them. Admittedly, it would be very unusual to see a topless woman walking down a UK high street. But it is not that unusual to see one sunbathing on a beach. Probably the main factor restricting that is the attention she would get from people who do not object. Breastfeeding in public is not only allowed but legally protected. [1] That includes if you are on private land but have a reasonable expectation that you could be seen from a public location. I recall a court case a few years ago where someone was regularly nude in their kitchen but could clearly be seen from a public footpath. The court decided that it still counted as indecent exposure.
- adolph 4y ago
  > Breastfeeding in public is not only allowed but legally protected. The law is an interesting mirror and anti-mirror of social norms. My guess is that if some activity needs legal protections there are significant social norms prohibiting that activity.
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  Hi, I didn't answer that point because I worried that it would de-rail the conversation a little bit by focusing on the particular laws of one country and applying that to the wider shared culture of our global HN community. To answer, though, I'm from Northern Ireland, where breastfeeding in public is legal but not protected. Northern Ireland is actually part of the UK, so what you're saying is incorrect and I'm not sure where you're getting your information from? Over here we have ad-hoc solutions were businesses can mark themselves as friendly to mothers (see: https://www.breastfedbabies.org/ https://www.breastfedbabies.org/) while the presumed norm is that mothers should go elsewhere. I'd say it could be a good idea to check out this article from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country) if you want to balance out your views about what's going on outside of your local area.
  - quietbritishjim 4y ago
    > Northern Ireland is actually part of the UK, so what you're saying is incorrect and I'm not sure where you're getting your information from? As a sibling comment says, the law differs between the nations. I was just referring to England and Wales. Sorry, I don't know why I didn't just say that (I think I assumed you were American and thought that much detail would complicate things). Anyway, here in England and Wales, breastfeeding is indeed protected. E.g. from a random law company's website: "According to the Equality Act of 2010, treating a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding a child of any age is considered sex discrimination. This applies to any business or premise providing services to the public, including public institutions, associations and higher education bodies. Service providers dealing directly with the public must not discriminate, harass or victimise a woman because she is breastfeeding. Discrimination includes refusing to provide a service, providing a lower standard of service or providing a service on different terms." > I'd say it could be a good idea to check out this article from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country) if you want to balance out your views about what's going on outside of your local area. Are you saying that because I claimed England and Wales' law applies to the whole UK? Apologies again for that, it was a slip. But, ironically, you seemed suggest that your local laws apply to the whole world! That's what caused my initial reply in the first place. > Legally yes, a woman has to cover her upper body while men do not.

theli0nheart 4y ago

> Legally yes, a woman has to cover her upper body while men do not. In the U.S., female toplessness is illegal in only two states (Tennessee and Missouri). In the rest, legal status is either unclear or it's expressly legal. So as a general statement, this is clearly untrue—it's not illegal everywhere. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_the_United_State...

quonn 4y ago

The trousers I‘m wearing right now have fake pockets at the back. I‘m a man. It has nothing to do with men or women. Many women do not wear makeup. Again, this depends a lot on the country. Many women choose to wear makeup or dress uncomfortably just like many men choose to work out and dress uncomfortably to look more attractive. Many men seemingly invest a lot of time into styling their beard or hair.

quietbritishjim 4y ago

You haven't answered the parent comment's request for your country, which is very relevant as things differ a lot. Here in the UK (which is what the article is about), it is illegal for either (/any) gender to expose their genitals in public [1] - that is called "indecent exposure". Breasts are not genitals and it is not illegal to show them. Admittedly, it would be very unusual to see a topless woman walking down a UK high street. But it is not that unusual to see one sunbathing on a beach. Probably the main factor restricting that is the attention she would get from people who do not object. Breastfeeding in public is not only allowed but legally protected. [1] That includes if you are on private land but have a reasonable expectation that you could be seen from a public location. I recall a court case a few years ago where someone was regularly nude in their kitchen but could clearly be seen from a public footpath. The court decided that it still counted as indecent exposure.

adolph 4y ago
> Breastfeeding in public is not only allowed but legally protected. The law is an interesting mirror and anti-mirror of social norms. My guess is that if some activity needs legal protections there are significant social norms prohibiting that activity.
AlecSchueler 4y ago
Hi, I didn't answer that point because I worried that it would de-rail the conversation a little bit by focusing on the particular laws of one country and applying that to the wider shared culture of our global HN community. To answer, though, I'm from Northern Ireland, where breastfeeding in public is legal but not protected. Northern Ireland is actually part of the UK, so what you're saying is incorrect and I'm not sure where you're getting your information from? Over here we have ad-hoc solutions were businesses can mark themselves as friendly to mothers (see: https://www.breastfedbabies.org/ https://www.breastfedbabies.org/) while the presumed norm is that mothers should go elsewhere. I'd say it could be a good idea to check out this article from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country) if you want to balance out your views about what's going on outside of your local area.
- quietbritishjim 4y ago
  > Northern Ireland is actually part of the UK, so what you're saying is incorrect and I'm not sure where you're getting your information from? As a sibling comment says, the law differs between the nations. I was just referring to England and Wales. Sorry, I don't know why I didn't just say that (I think I assumed you were American and thought that much detail would complicate things). Anyway, here in England and Wales, breastfeeding is indeed protected. E.g. from a random law company's website: "According to the Equality Act of 2010, treating a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding a child of any age is considered sex discrimination. This applies to any business or premise providing services to the public, including public institutions, associations and higher education bodies. Service providers dealing directly with the public must not discriminate, harass or victimise a woman because she is breastfeeding. Discrimination includes refusing to provide a service, providing a lower standard of service or providing a service on different terms." > I'd say it could be a good idea to check out this article from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country) if you want to balance out your views about what's going on outside of your local area. Are you saying that because I claimed England and Wales' law applies to the whole UK? Apologies again for that, it was a slip. But, ironically, you seemed suggest that your local laws apply to the whole world! That's what caused my initial reply in the first place. > Legally yes, a woman has to cover her upper body while men do not.