4 ms·

Sad to remember that at one point, internet was decentralized and was not as easy to censor as today.

superkuh 4y ago
It's going to get worse as HTTPS everywhere becomes the unchangable default and Google/MS/Apple eventually drop HTTP/1.1 support from their browsers. Without the ability to even make a connection to an IP, not just a domain, without the approval of a third party CA corporation the web will become very much smaller and more easily controlled.
- rcoveson 4y ago
  Why does this make it worse? People who can override the DNS server their ISP advertises over DHCP can't just install an open CA, or use a browser that lets them bypass certificate verification?
- vlovich123 4y ago
  I keep hearing this but afaik letsencrypt is free and doesn’t have restrictions on generating it.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    Let's Encrypt is free right now, but it is still centralized. A court could order them to revoke certificates from specific websites and stop issuing new ones.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      And this is why it’s important to have these CAs in different justifications. It’s been a pain convincing companies to fund them though.
    - hammyhavoc 4y ago
      The more likely outcome wouldn't be a certificate being revoked, but a renewal of the certificate being declined. The certs are only valid for 3 months.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I don't expect the major browsers to drop HTTP for some practical reasons, namely logging into routers and captive portals.
- zoobab 4y ago
  They could easily revoke your certificate, and deactivate your website.
scrollaway 4y ago
DNS is still decentralized. Cloudflare DNS is just one of many.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  Not really. Verisign can censor any .com, .net, or .name domain. Since they run 1 of the 13 root servers they can technically somewhat censor any domain by MitM all top level domains.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    You can always host your own instance: https://www.icann.org/root-server-system-en https://www.icann.org/root-server-system-en
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      Yes, but in that case .com, .net, and .name would all still be censorable.
      - fomine3 4y ago
        I don't know what you want.
        charcircuit 4y ago
        A domain that isn't fragile enough that one company can take it down. Systems like namecoin or ens don't suffer from this problem because they are actually decentralized.
        hammyhavoc 4y ago
        Systems like Namecoin and ENS suffer from accessibility though because major browsers haven't adopted support for .bit or .eth domains.
Overtonwindow 4y ago
At least this time Cloudflare is being ordered to do it, as opposed to just doing it because the CEO feels like it. I'm not sure which is worse.
- zirgs 4y ago
  The CEO restricting access to a legal site without a court order is way worse.
  - mdhb 4y ago
    Just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing here. The “legal site” you are referring to was the Nazi filled one that had the stated aim of trying to dox and harass minorities and kept a running tally of how many they could get to kill themselves? That’s the one you are more upset about getting blocked?
    - zirgs 4y ago
      If whatever they are doing is illegal then sue them and get the site taken down with a court order.
      - mdhb 4y ago
        You do understand that the internet crosses borders while national laws don’t right? It’s perfectly ok in a personal and professional sense to have your own standards rather than just throwing up your hands and saying “well it’s not technically illegal… in this country”
        zirgs 4y ago
        Power and water providers could also have "their own standards" and refuse to provide service to people whose opinions they don't like. See where this is going? I prefer clear rules for everyone not - we have freedom of speech, but we'll find a way to punish you if you say something some rich person doesn't like.
AniseAbyss 4y ago
[dead]
throwaway71271 4y ago
dns was never decentralized, but i am not sure it matters, probably 99% of the internet will be generated within 2 years or so tbh sharing a hosts file with few friends and going back to talk(2) on a pubnix machine is a future i am looking forward to
- scrollaway 4y ago
  The web is not the same thing as the internet, just a reminder. DNS is an underlying system to the whole thing.

It's going to get worse as HTTPS everywhere becomes the unchangable default and Google/MS/Apple eventually drop HTTP/1.1 support from their browsers. Without the ability to even make a connection to an IP, not just a domain, without the approval of a third party CA corporation the web will become very much smaller and more easily controlled.

rcoveson 4y ago
Why does this make it worse? People who can override the DNS server their ISP advertises over DHCP can't just install an open CA, or use a browser that lets them bypass certificate verification?
vlovich123 4y ago
I keep hearing this but afaik letsencrypt is free and doesn’t have restrictions on generating it.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  Let's Encrypt is free right now, but it is still centralized. A court could order them to revoke certificates from specific websites and stop issuing new ones.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    And this is why it’s important to have these CAs in different justifications. It’s been a pain convincing companies to fund them though.
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    The more likely outcome wouldn't be a certificate being revoked, but a renewal of the certificate being declined. The certs are only valid for 3 months.
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
I don't expect the major browsers to drop HTTP for some practical reasons, namely logging into routers and captive portals.
zoobab 4y ago
They could easily revoke your certificate, and deactivate your website.

scrollaway 4y ago

DNS is still decentralized. Cloudflare DNS is just one of many.

charcircuit 4y ago
Not really. Verisign can censor any .com, .net, or .name domain. Since they run 1 of the 13 root servers they can technically somewhat censor any domain by MitM all top level domains.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  You can always host your own instance: https://www.icann.org/root-server-system-en https://www.icann.org/root-server-system-en
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    Yes, but in that case .com, .net, and .name would all still be censorable.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      I don't know what you want.
      - charcircuit 4y ago
        A domain that isn't fragile enough that one company can take it down. Systems like namecoin or ens don't suffer from this problem because they are actually decentralized.
        hammyhavoc 4y ago
        Systems like Namecoin and ENS suffer from accessibility though because major browsers haven't adopted support for .bit or .eth domains.

Overtonwindow 4y ago

At least this time Cloudflare is being ordered to do it, as opposed to just doing it because the CEO feels like it. I'm not sure which is worse.

zirgs 4y ago
The CEO restricting access to a legal site without a court order is way worse.
- mdhb 4y ago
  Just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing here. The “legal site” you are referring to was the Nazi filled one that had the stated aim of trying to dox and harass minorities and kept a running tally of how many they could get to kill themselves? That’s the one you are more upset about getting blocked?
  - zirgs 4y ago
    If whatever they are doing is illegal then sue them and get the site taken down with a court order.
    - mdhb 4y ago
      You do understand that the internet crosses borders while national laws don’t right? It’s perfectly ok in a personal and professional sense to have your own standards rather than just throwing up your hands and saying “well it’s not technically illegal… in this country”
      - zirgs 4y ago
        Power and water providers could also have "their own standards" and refuse to provide service to people whose opinions they don't like. See where this is going? I prefer clear rules for everyone not - we have freedom of speech, but we'll find a way to punish you if you say something some rich person doesn't like.

AniseAbyss 4y ago

[dead]

throwaway71271 4y ago

dns was never decentralized, but i am not sure it matters, probably 99% of the internet will be generated within 2 years or so tbh sharing a hosts file with few friends and going back to talk(2) on a pubnix machine is a future i am looking forward to

scrollaway 4y ago
The web is not the same thing as the internet, just a reminder. DNS is an underlying system to the whole thing.