8 ms·

I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and

I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the tests I was given that led to my diagnosis were frankly bullshit. Looking back it seemed incredibly easy and 'hand wavy' for the doc to just shut up the parent and schools and write up a prescription to 'solve the problem'. In my eyes, the only problem I had is that I thought school was a meaningless chore. Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in?

romwell 4y ago
> Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? >take meth Ah yes, the good old "Adderall is meth" ridiculousness. Sure, Adderall is amphetamine, and meth is methamphetamine, just one methyl group of a difference - practically the same thing, right? Just like ethanol (aka vodka) and methanol (deadly poison, makes you blind) - one one ethyl group difference, practically the same thing! Please stop referring to medication[1] many people rely on as "meth". Or if you must do so - consider having a shot of methanol next time you go for a drink. If it's the same to you, then why not? [1]https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication
fzzzy 4y ago
Good comment, but Adderall is Amphetamine, not Methamphetamine. Big difference.
- OkayPhysicist 4y ago
  Methamphetamine can be prescribed for ADHD under the trade name Desoxyn, but it's less common because the side effects are worse.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - fzzzy 4y ago
    Sure, but they said they had been prescribed Adderall and Ritalin, neither of which are Methamphetamine.
    - rozal 4y ago
      Methamphetamine is actually a derivative of amphetamine.... So it's pretty damn close, effects are similar too.
- eindiran 4y ago
  Methamphetamine is a schedule 2 drug and prescribed in the US, though significantly more rarely than amphetamine. Is there a difference between oral consumption of amphetamine and methamphetamine dosed out in correct proportion to the salts in question? Maybe, but certainly not that "big" of a difference.
  - caslon 4y ago
    It's actually a big difference. One feels downright euphoric, according to Desoxyn users. The other is a boring study drug. https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      >The other is a boring study drug That's quite the mischaracterization. Stimulants even at low doses increase the dopamine in the brain and lead to a mild high. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever call Adderall "boring" before either. That's like calling alcohol boring, maybe someone may not like the experience, but they both have immediate and noticeable effects and it's not just "I love studying" either. Even Scott's article has examples of this, here's a story of a little girl becoming very high from a prescription stimulant: "A spontaneous report from the manufacturer of Strattera (atomoxetine) described a 7-year-old girl who received 18 mg daily of atomoxetine for the treatment of ADHD. Within hours of taking the first dose, the patient started talking nonstop and stated that she was happy. The next morning the child was still elated."
      - brazzledazzle 4y ago
        In my experience people who take adderall while partying do it to stay awake longer to party with other drugs or booze. In practice for most people that “high” isn’t really a thing. At least not with anyone I know who is prescribed it or sometimes takes it recreationally. Meth on the other hand? Yeah that’s going to give you a very noticeable high.
IIAOPSW 4y ago
>Looking back it seemed incredibly easy and 'hand wavy' for the doc to just shut up the parent and schools and write up a prescription to 'solve the problem' Exactly. The diagnosis is a tool for the system to give it a veneer of scientific legitimacy. There is no truth only power. In living memory, being gay was a diagnoseable disorder. In some countries political dissidents would be deemed insane and committed to institutions. Psychiatrists used to hand out lobotomies and electric shocks to anyone they felt like.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
The biggest flaw in this line of reasoning is that these drugs aren't inherently calming or causing docility. They are pretty powerful stimulants! It's quite obvious when a troublesome kid has been misdiagnosed: they act as you would expect a child on stimulants to act. The behavior changes are mostly only useful if the child does have adhd. A non-adhd problem child on amphetamines is a powerful source of chaos.
OkayPhysicist 4y ago
> Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? The flip side of this is that being unable to thrive in the system they're in is effectively dooming them to a substandard, more difficult life. If you think the system is broken, fix it, but ripping off the bandage before you have any sutures on hand is the opposite of a solution. If I had started on medication younger, I undoubtedly would have done better in high school. If I had done better in high school, I would have gone to a better college, better college, better job etc. On the flip side, had I not gotten medicated in college, I very well could have flunked out. So, yeah, it's a fucked up that the system doesn't accommodate for people slightly outside neurotypical-ness, requiring stimulant use to thrive, just like it's fucked up that it doesn't accommodate deaf people, making cochlear implants an extremely valuable treatment. But so long as that system is in place, restricting access to harm mitigation from that system because the system is fucked is unquestionably wrong.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
callalex 4y ago
Adderall and Ritalin are not meth, and the fact that you consider them equivalent demonstrates your harmful lack of knowledge on this topic.
- rozal 4y ago
  Amphetamines and methamphetamine are closely related. Methamphetamine is actually a derivative of amphetamine. So - you're wrong. And with that stupid insult you added at the end, you look even dumber.
  - johnnyjeans 4y ago
    > Amphetamines and methamphetamine are closely related. In the field of biochemistry, this is virtually meaningless. A single substitution group is capable of producing wild changes in pharmacokinetics. The left and right-handed enantiomers of these molecules don't even act the same way in the body, and these aren't even positional isomers. The similarities with AMP and MAMP begin and end with being TAAR1 agonists. Off the top of my head, MAMP is also a potent agonist for sigma 1 & 2 receptors, and is generally more promiscuous. Methamphetamine is a substituted amphetamine, not a "derivative". They're both simple substituted phenylethylamines, another TAAR1 agonist that is extremely prolific in your neurochemistry as we speak, and an incredibly diverse family of monoamines that range from lethal neurotoxin to serotonergic hallucinogen. The difference between the two is often as simple as a single atom moved 2 or 3 substitution points over. When you lack basic domain knowledge, please don't call other people dumb as you try (and fail) to correct them.
    - rozal 4y ago
      Methamphetamine is not a substitution for amphetamine. A substitution refers to the replacement of one atom or group of atoms in a molecule with another atom or group of atoms. A derivative, on the other hand, refers to a molecule that is derived from another molecule by modifying its molecular structure. In the case of amphetamine and methamphetamine, methamphetamine is derived from amphetamine by adding a methyl group (-CH3) to the amphetamine molecule, which modifies its molecular structure. Amphetamines and methamphetamine are closely related drugs, as methamphetamine is a type of amphetamine. They both work in a similar way by increasing the release and blocking the reuptake of certain neurotransmitters, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, in the brain. As a result, they both have similar effect. All you're doing is microdosing a terrible drug and calling it treatment. Addicts defend this, not logical healthy people.
neilparikh 4y ago
> In my eyes, the only problem I had is that I thought school was a meaningless chore. Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? This is what the problem was for you. It's quite a leap from there to assume that all children on ADHD medications also happen to have the same problem. For many people with ADHD, the difficulty is beyond "the system they're in". Being regularly late to events, zoning out when talking to someone, living in a chaotic/messy living space etc. (common problems with those with ADHD) will still be a problem in a hypothetical better school system or post-scarcity communism society.

romwell 4y ago

> Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? >take meth Ah yes, the good old "Adderall is meth" ridiculousness. Sure, Adderall is amphetamine, and meth is methamphetamine, just one methyl group of a difference - practically the same thing, right? Just like ethanol (aka vodka) and methanol (deadly poison, makes you blind) - one one ethyl group difference, practically the same thing! Please stop referring to medication[1] many people rely on as "meth". Or if you must do so - consider having a shot of methanol next time you go for a drink. If it's the same to you, then why not? [1]https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication

fzzzy 4y ago

Good comment, but Adderall is Amphetamine, not Methamphetamine. Big difference.

OkayPhysicist 4y ago
Methamphetamine can be prescribed for ADHD under the trade name Desoxyn, but it's less common because the side effects are worse.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fzzzy 4y ago
  Sure, but they said they had been prescribed Adderall and Ritalin, neither of which are Methamphetamine.
  - rozal 4y ago
    Methamphetamine is actually a derivative of amphetamine.... So it's pretty damn close, effects are similar too.
eindiran 4y ago
Methamphetamine is a schedule 2 drug and prescribed in the US, though significantly more rarely than amphetamine. Is there a difference between oral consumption of amphetamine and methamphetamine dosed out in correct proportion to the salts in question? Maybe, but certainly not that "big" of a difference.
- caslon 4y ago
  It's actually a big difference. One feels downright euphoric, according to Desoxyn users. The other is a boring study drug. https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    >The other is a boring study drug That's quite the mischaracterization. Stimulants even at low doses increase the dopamine in the brain and lead to a mild high. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever call Adderall "boring" before either. That's like calling alcohol boring, maybe someone may not like the experience, but they both have immediate and noticeable effects and it's not just "I love studying" either. Even Scott's article has examples of this, here's a story of a little girl becoming very high from a prescription stimulant: "A spontaneous report from the manufacturer of Strattera (atomoxetine) described a 7-year-old girl who received 18 mg daily of atomoxetine for the treatment of ADHD. Within hours of taking the first dose, the patient started talking nonstop and stated that she was happy. The next morning the child was still elated."
    - brazzledazzle 4y ago
      In my experience people who take adderall while partying do it to stay awake longer to party with other drugs or booze. In practice for most people that “high” isn’t really a thing. At least not with anyone I know who is prescribed it or sometimes takes it recreationally. Meth on the other hand? Yeah that’s going to give you a very noticeable high.

IIAOPSW 4y ago

>Looking back it seemed incredibly easy and 'hand wavy' for the doc to just shut up the parent and schools and write up a prescription to 'solve the problem' Exactly. The diagnosis is a tool for the system to give it a veneer of scientific legitimacy. There is no truth only power. In living memory, being gay was a diagnoseable disorder. In some countries political dissidents would be deemed insane and committed to institutions. Psychiatrists used to hand out lobotomies and electric shocks to anyone they felt like.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

The biggest flaw in this line of reasoning is that these drugs aren't inherently calming or causing docility. They are pretty powerful stimulants! It's quite obvious when a troublesome kid has been misdiagnosed: they act as you would expect a child on stimulants to act. The behavior changes are mostly only useful if the child does have adhd. A non-adhd problem child on amphetamines is a powerful source of chaos.

OkayPhysicist 4y ago

> Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? The flip side of this is that being unable to thrive in the system they're in is effectively dooming them to a substandard, more difficult life. If you think the system is broken, fix it, but ripping off the bandage before you have any sutures on hand is the opposite of a solution. If I had started on medication younger, I undoubtedly would have done better in high school. If I had done better in high school, I would have gone to a better college, better college, better job etc. On the flip side, had I not gotten medicated in college, I very well could have flunked out. So, yeah, it's a fucked up that the system doesn't accommodate for people slightly outside neurotypical-ness, requiring stimulant use to thrive, just like it's fucked up that it doesn't accommodate deaf people, making cochlear implants an extremely valuable treatment. But so long as that system is in place, restricting access to harm mitigation from that system because the system is fucked is unquestionably wrong.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

callalex 4y ago

Adderall and Ritalin are not meth, and the fact that you consider them equivalent demonstrates your harmful lack of knowledge on this topic.

rozal 4y ago
Amphetamines and methamphetamine are closely related. Methamphetamine is actually a derivative of amphetamine. So - you're wrong. And with that stupid insult you added at the end, you look even dumber.
- johnnyjeans 4y ago
  > Amphetamines and methamphetamine are closely related. In the field of biochemistry, this is virtually meaningless. A single substitution group is capable of producing wild changes in pharmacokinetics. The left and right-handed enantiomers of these molecules don't even act the same way in the body, and these aren't even positional isomers. The similarities with AMP and MAMP begin and end with being TAAR1 agonists. Off the top of my head, MAMP is also a potent agonist for sigma 1 & 2 receptors, and is generally more promiscuous. Methamphetamine is a substituted amphetamine, not a "derivative". They're both simple substituted phenylethylamines, another TAAR1 agonist that is extremely prolific in your neurochemistry as we speak, and an incredibly diverse family of monoamines that range from lethal neurotoxin to serotonergic hallucinogen. The difference between the two is often as simple as a single atom moved 2 or 3 substitution points over. When you lack basic domain knowledge, please don't call other people dumb as you try (and fail) to correct them.
  - rozal 4y ago
    Methamphetamine is not a substitution for amphetamine. A substitution refers to the replacement of one atom or group of atoms in a molecule with another atom or group of atoms. A derivative, on the other hand, refers to a molecule that is derived from another molecule by modifying its molecular structure. In the case of amphetamine and methamphetamine, methamphetamine is derived from amphetamine by adding a methyl group (-CH3) to the amphetamine molecule, which modifies its molecular structure. Amphetamines and methamphetamine are closely related drugs, as methamphetamine is a type of amphetamine. They both work in a similar way by increasing the release and blocking the reuptake of certain neurotransmitters, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, in the brain. As a result, they both have similar effect. All you're doing is microdosing a terrible drug and calling it treatment. Addicts defend this, not logical healthy people.

neilparikh 4y ago

> In my eyes, the only problem I had is that I thought school was a meaningless chore. Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? This is what the problem was for you. It's quite a leap from there to assume that all children on ADHD medications also happen to have the same problem. For many people with ADHD, the difficulty is beyond "the system they're in". Being regularly late to events, zoning out when talking to someone, living in a chaotic/messy living space etc. (common problems with those with ADHD) will still be a problem in a hypothetical better school system or post-scarcity communism society.