10 ms·

This seems just a little bit of a conspiracy theory but, giving it credence I would say that it might be because the drugs are ridiculously overprescribed. Part

This seems just a little bit of a conspiracy theory but, giving it credence I would say that it might be because the drugs are ridiculously overprescribed. Particularly for those who just don't need it. In the case of ADD, once there was a medication for it the diagnosis took off like a rocket. Sort of like oxycodone..

sieabahlpark 4y ago
[dead]
OkayPhysicist 4y ago
Isn't that to be expected, though? There's plenty of people who wouldn't subject themselves to the ordeal of going to the doctors to pursue a diagnosis of an untreatable disease. You just suffer through it. In contrast, if there's a known treatment for it, then the reward (not having ADD symptoms) dramatically outweighs the cost (of drudging through doctors appointments). I'd bet the number of surgeries significantly increased after we discovered anesthesia and sanitation. Not because more people were needing it, but because the outcomes were suddenly much better.
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  You underestimate college students because that is exactly what we did in college. People went to their doctor, faked hyperactivity, and were given adderall which they then sold to other students. I'm sure your ADD is horrible but try telling someone taking these drugs to stop. They won't. They depend on it too much and it's become part of their personality, and their belief that it is what they need. Just. Like. Oxy.
  - symlinkk 4y ago
    What’s the big deal? The definition of ADHD is extremely fuzzy anyway. Why not just let whoever take them that wants them?
    - SeanAnderson 4y ago
      Well, IMO, it puts everyone into a mental arms-race reminiscent of steroid use in bodybuilding competitions. If you told me I was going to take a standardized test where only the top 10% make the cut, and everyone serious about winning is taking a mental PED, then yeah I am going to feel intrinsic pressure to step-up and also engage in that mental arms race. I would've been just as happy to not do that if I were given a more level playing field. It's no secret that there is a war going on to commoditize attention. I want to live in a world where people hone their ability to push back against having their attention leeched not one where everyone raises their baseline to cope temporarily. I also have to think that, long term, it's kind of disrespectful to those with ADHD. If expectations of attention rise due to uptake in mental PEDs then where does that leave those who were originally disadvantaged? They lose their ability to exist on a more level playing field. Bit of a tangent, but many years ago when I was wrapping up college, I was in a Calc III class over summer. The course was being taught at an advanced pace and basically everyone in the class was struggling after the first exam. The professor addressed the class about the poor performance and then called out a student in the front row. The professor said, "You! You did well on the exam. What was your secret to studying?" and, not missing a beat, the student responded, "Adderall!" I took the hint, bought some from a friend, and suddenly found myself passing the class with flying colors. It felt good in the moment, but honestly only because I wasn't being graded on a curve. It would've been wildly demoralizing if I'd been in direct competition with my peers. I know life isn't fair and it's a pipedream to clamber on about desiring a level playing field, but surely we can agree that physical fitness competitions are more interesting when they are separated between "natty" and "enhanced" competitors? And that if we eliminated that separation that those without PEDs are disadvantaged? I don't see society making that sort of separation for mental fitness and so I am concerned about letting stimulants loose on the population.
      - NotPractical 4y ago
        > I am concerned about letting stimulants loose on the population. They already have been. It's not hard at all to get an Adderall prescription. Just Google "ADHD symptoms" (the main one being trouble focusing) then go to your doctor and tell them you have those.
  - Scalene2 4y ago
    A choice must be made. Either be more restrictive and controlling meaning that some people that need the drugs don't get them. Or be less restrictive and controlling meaning that some people you think shouldn't get the drugs get them.
    - asdff 4y ago
      There's other ways to realign incentives. A buy back program would do a lot honestly to restrict the supply. A lot of people who got them for legit purposes would still end up with a ton leftover when they would get their next prescription. If they were able to get more money returning them to the pharmacy or counting them towards their next prescription than selling them to other students, that's what they would do.
      - iamevn 4y ago
        I am prescribed to take one pill each day. I prefer to keep this up on the weekends because I like being able to function even when I'm not being paid to. I can only fill a prescription once a month. The pill bottles have 28 pills in them. What possibly would be left over?
        asdff 4y ago
        Most people I knew who were on them weren't taking the dosage they were being prescribed. The side effects were too much taking it daily, so they would just use it if they were spending a lot of time in the library that day, and would end the month with half the bottle still by the time they reupped. Just because you have ADHD and benefit sometimes from these meds doesn't mean you feel great being on them 100% of the time nor need to be taking them if you are not doing anything mentally demanding that day. It's basically meth lite, after all.
        iamevn 4y ago
        My experience is that I feel significantly better when I am on my meds and am able to function consistently. I envy people who function well enough off their meds that they can be choosy about when they take them. I have no experience with meth but my understanding is that it is only superficially similar to meth.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    I'm not interested in protecting the people that game their doctor. They decided on their own they wanted the drug and dishonestly represented themselves to obtain it. That's their own prerogative, if that causes problems then that should not result in punishment for those acting with honesty. This is not "just. like. Oxy." in so many cases. Many of these were people in pain management with zero deceit involved on the side of the patient.
  - junofan 4y ago
    ADHD is an ADA-recognized disability. I doubt you’d support secret limits on mobility scooter orders because college kids sometimes steal golf carts. Why is this different?
    - showdeddd 4y ago
      Because Adderall is 100% pure speed. A handful of Adderalls is more fun than a bag of cocaine (which is going to be more like 5% purity and adulterated with god knows what).
      - kevviiinn 4y ago
        Mobility scooters can also be abused for a good time
      - BoorishBears 4y ago
        Maybe if you stop taking Adderall for fun you won't need to compare it to your bags of cocaine.
      - OkayPhysicist 4y ago
        Don't talk out of your ass. Cocaine comes with a much, much bigger euphoric rush than even methamphetamine, which has a much bigger rush than amphetamine. If your coke is less fun than some focus enhancement, it's because somebody sold you a gram of baking powder. Basically all stimulants can be categorized by a level of euphoric rush, and a level of focus they provide. Caffeine sucks at both, methamphetamine rocks at both, cocaine's good for a body rush but isn't very good for focus, and amphetamine comes with relatively little euphoria for a methamphetamine-comparable level of focus.
      - nemothekid 4y ago
        >A handful of Adderalls is more fun than a bag of cocaine Yeah, this is fear mongering; and I doubt any abuse you are seeing is actually happening on any sort of scale. To imply adderall is more fun than Cocaine/Cocaethylene is a completely strange assertion given cocaine's continued and greater penetration despite the fact it's a highly controlled schedule 2 drug. If you could have more fun with adderall, why would you spend more money on cocaine?
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    Sounds "Just. Like. Oxy." in that people who have no idea what they're talking about go based on their gut feelings as if science and medicine should yield to their imagination: I mean I'm sure your diabetes is horrible but try telling someone taking insulin to stop. They won't. They depend on not being in a diabetic coma too much! And not slipping into a diabetic coma becomes a part of their personality. - ADHD doesn't mean hyperactivity despite hyperactivity being in the name. For me not taking ADHD medication results in what your proclivity for drug abuse was gaining you: the super human ability to focus on one thing for hours and hours at a time. The difference is when the drugs you were abusing wore off, you'd go back to being able to do other things. I'd just keep being prisoner of whatever I'm doing indefinitely. It's an awful feeling to know you have to do something else, you really need to switch tasks right now, but it's like you're a prisoner in your own mind, just stuck. So subjecting myself to that isn't really something I'd willingly... is that surprising? I mean I've personally requested lower doses of medications, leaned towards less "intrusive" delivery methods like metabolized extended release versions, and stopped when I was injured and unable to do much (being stuck mentally wasn't a big deal when I was physically stuck) But even if someone else dealing with this doesn't want to do that, I don't blame them. It's an awful disease that deserves proper treatment. Some dumb drug abusing kid isn't going to change that.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    That's only true if you squint real hard. Might as well say people are addicted to oxygen or food if you're going to oversimplify that far. Plenty of people are able to learn meaningful coping strategies for their ADHD and choose to go off medication (especially those medicated from a young age), or at least off of stimulant medication, choosing instead to treat their disease with non-stimulant options. You'd also have to ignore the fact that they're, umm, different drugs, and do different things. The pain relief granted by opiates, along with them being chemically addictive and the marketing put forth by Perdue Pharma leading to addiction, for which they've paid billion of dollars in fines. There have been no such issues for AmerisourceBergen Corp., Cardinal Health Inc. and McKesson Corp. The thing about the drugs being different is the results on people's lives. Off medication and unmanaged, people suffering from ADHD go into depressive slumps of executive dysfunction and are unable to perform their EDLs (EveryDay Living activities; showering, putting on clothes, feeding one's self, using the bathroom, exercising), never mind things like cleaning, holding down a job or paying rent. Most are able to keep at the same dosage for the majority of their lives. That's not what people happens to people chemically addicted to Oxy. They need more and more to get the same effect, and chase after it to the point that many have become hooked on heroin, absent a prescribed supply of Oxycontin. While on the drug their lives turn to shambles, getting fired from work and losing their jobs and then their housing and end up living on the street. That difference is entirely material to the discussion. If people are able to make more of themselves on a particular medication, society is able to accept that a medication is good, rather than bad. That may be a tough pill for some to swallow, especially those that want to reject traditional societal norms for judging a person's life. Another tough pill is that the idea that Adderall blunts a person should really be considered a fringe belief these days, given how many people use Adderall to better their lives. Are their people that abuse Adderall? Sure. Are their many more people that don't, and live much richer lives thanks to prescribed medication from a doctor? Absolutely.
  - munk-a 4y ago
    Personally I'd really really appreciate if you would dial back the medication shaming a fair amount. As someone who can function with a lot of effort and the support of medication and who has gotten into several rough spots in life when I've suddenly run out of meds and have needed to motivate myself independently to refill them... please don't opine on what other people's experiences are. Additionally, Adderall and the like aren't just like +2 INT boosts - the stimulants have a different affect on most people with ADHD than it would on a regular person... so whatever you've experienced abusing the medication is probably quite a bit different from what I'll experience using it.
- westmeal 4y ago
  I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the tests I was given that led to my diagnosis were frankly bullshit. Looking back it seemed incredibly easy and 'hand wavy' for the doc to just shut up the parent and schools and write up a prescription to 'solve the problem'. In my eyes, the only problem I had is that I thought school was a meaningless chore. Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in?
  - romwell 4y ago
    > Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? >take meth Ah yes, the good old "Adderall is meth" ridiculousness. Sure, Adderall is amphetamine, and meth is methamphetamine, just one methyl group of a difference - practically the same thing, right? Just like ethanol (aka vodka) and methanol (deadly poison, makes you blind) - one one ethyl group difference, practically the same thing! Please stop referring to medication[1] many people rely on as "meth". Or if you must do so - consider having a shot of methanol next time you go for a drink. If it's the same to you, then why not? [1]https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication
  - fzzzy 4y ago
    Good comment, but Adderall is Amphetamine, not Methamphetamine. Big difference.
    - OkayPhysicist 4y ago
      Methamphetamine can be prescribed for ADHD under the trade name Desoxyn, but it's less common because the side effects are worse.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
iamdbtoo 4y ago
It sounds a little bit of a conspiracy because it's rooted in misinformation.
EngManagerIsMe 4y ago
Left handedness used to be about 2% of the US population. Now it's about 12%. While it could be that somehow we've got an epidemic of left-handedness that blossomed in the 1920s, what's much more likely is that we've gotten more accommodating and understanding of left handed people, so there was less incentive to fit the mold of right handed folks. I'm sure there were people who were alarmed at that rise, who felt that we didn't really need left handed tools and accommodations for the "2% of people who are left handed", but when you made those things available, we stabilized at about 12%. Antidepressants and ADHD meds are, imo, in a similar place -- we've increased our understanding, we've increased our accommodations, we no longer force the people who experience those maladies into the stress of acting 'normal'. Once you remove demonization, of course diagnosis are going to skyrocket. When it's no longer a scary thing to admit depression, ADHD, or autism, it becomes easier to get evaluated and care for them. I experience depression, I am on an SSRI, it helps me a TON. Historically, I might have been involuntarily committed or been told to "deal with it". I guarantee you I would not be as successful as I am now if I didn't have the support I do. (Similarly, I expect you see a lot more people being "out" in the LGBTQ+ community as a result of a similar phenomena. Once it's no longer criminal or "get lynched" territory, we see numbers of gay and trans folks increase.) These things seem like fads. They usually aren't, they are usually the case of a particular mode of people being pressured to be silent and invisible. When you remove that negative stigma, the revert to the mean can be dramatic, but it will stabilize at a new normal level.
- notch898a 4y ago
  I've also noticed family members benefit greatly from SSRIs. The main skeptic point I have is I've also seen them absolutely get wrecked by what appears to them as supply chain failures (usually because they're unable to get a meeting with a physician in time for refills and no physician will grant them a "bridge" to the next appointment). Of course as we saw during COVID, supply chain failures of all sorts are possible even when society has not collapsed. From the outside one of the biggest concerns I have is one of these supply chain failures will put them in even worse place than had they never taken them, as I've personally seen their withdrawal symptoms look far worse than their unmedicated baseline. It seems to be a "better day to day" with the added risk of extreme withdrawal and associated risks during these few in a lifetime supply failures.
epolanski 4y ago
I second this feeling, it seems like not only they are overprescribed but it's done at very young ages. Doctors just throw ADHD at signs of hyperactivity. The idea of creating generations after generations unable to function without drugs seems a social disaster. It's so odd, and also very specific to US.
neilparikh 4y ago
The real answer (IMO) is that ADHD is both under-diagnosed and over-diagnosed. I know many people who would benefit from a ADHD diagnosis, but aren't diagnosed yet, and just kind of struggle through as best as they can. On the flip side, it's also somewhat common for people to be diagnosed incorrectly (either due an over eager doctor, or because they sought out the diagnosis to get the drug). So really, it's a question of improving accuracy overall, not just "let's make things stricter" (which would make it even harder from those are not diagnosed yet). (I know you mentioned prescribing, not diagnosing, but I think it's a broader issue beyond just the drug).
- spiralx 4y ago
  Adults, females and minorities are all under-diagnosed compared to the estimated 2-4% of the population with ADHD. And I'd guess that diagnosis rates are higher across the board in the USA than elsewhere - I read the other day only 1 in 1,000 adults in Scotland have been diagnosed with ADHD, at least an order of magnitude fewer than those who would benefit from it. https://www.additudemag.com/statistics-of-adhd/ https://www.additudemag.com/statistics-of-adhd/
opportune 4y ago
Ok, then the DEA should do something like go after pill mills and overprescribers or at the very least apply quotas based on time of starting treatment, ie limiting new diagnoses. The latter should be easy to do because of all the scheduled drug regulations and tracking they have already. Making it so everybody with a medication gets screwed is idiotic. I don’t even think it’s worth stopping people from taking it personally, anybody willing to fake the medical system could just as easily take street meth instead, which will be a lot worse for society. Reminds me of when the heroin epidemic went into overdrive after the DEA cracked down on pain clinics, then leading to the fentanyl epidemic, and how many deaths? I’m sure it was worth it though

sieabahlpark 4y ago

[dead]

OkayPhysicist 4y ago

Isn't that to be expected, though? There's plenty of people who wouldn't subject themselves to the ordeal of going to the doctors to pursue a diagnosis of an untreatable disease. You just suffer through it. In contrast, if there's a known treatment for it, then the reward (not having ADD symptoms) dramatically outweighs the cost (of drudging through doctors appointments). I'd bet the number of surgeries significantly increased after we discovered anesthesia and sanitation. Not because more people were needing it, but because the outcomes were suddenly much better.

Overtonwindow 4y ago
You underestimate college students because that is exactly what we did in college. People went to their doctor, faked hyperactivity, and were given adderall which they then sold to other students. I'm sure your ADD is horrible but try telling someone taking these drugs to stop. They won't. They depend on it too much and it's become part of their personality, and their belief that it is what they need. Just. Like. Oxy.
- symlinkk 4y ago
  What’s the big deal? The definition of ADHD is extremely fuzzy anyway. Why not just let whoever take them that wants them?
  - SeanAnderson 4y ago
    Well, IMO, it puts everyone into a mental arms-race reminiscent of steroid use in bodybuilding competitions. If you told me I was going to take a standardized test where only the top 10% make the cut, and everyone serious about winning is taking a mental PED, then yeah I am going to feel intrinsic pressure to step-up and also engage in that mental arms race. I would've been just as happy to not do that if I were given a more level playing field. It's no secret that there is a war going on to commoditize attention. I want to live in a world where people hone their ability to push back against having their attention leeched not one where everyone raises their baseline to cope temporarily. I also have to think that, long term, it's kind of disrespectful to those with ADHD. If expectations of attention rise due to uptake in mental PEDs then where does that leave those who were originally disadvantaged? They lose their ability to exist on a more level playing field. Bit of a tangent, but many years ago when I was wrapping up college, I was in a Calc III class over summer. The course was being taught at an advanced pace and basically everyone in the class was struggling after the first exam. The professor addressed the class about the poor performance and then called out a student in the front row. The professor said, "You! You did well on the exam. What was your secret to studying?" and, not missing a beat, the student responded, "Adderall!" I took the hint, bought some from a friend, and suddenly found myself passing the class with flying colors. It felt good in the moment, but honestly only because I wasn't being graded on a curve. It would've been wildly demoralizing if I'd been in direct competition with my peers. I know life isn't fair and it's a pipedream to clamber on about desiring a level playing field, but surely we can agree that physical fitness competitions are more interesting when they are separated between "natty" and "enhanced" competitors? And that if we eliminated that separation that those without PEDs are disadvantaged? I don't see society making that sort of separation for mental fitness and so I am concerned about letting stimulants loose on the population.
    - NotPractical 4y ago
      > I am concerned about letting stimulants loose on the population. They already have been. It's not hard at all to get an Adderall prescription. Just Google "ADHD symptoms" (the main one being trouble focusing) then go to your doctor and tell them you have those.
- Scalene2 4y ago
  A choice must be made. Either be more restrictive and controlling meaning that some people that need the drugs don't get them. Or be less restrictive and controlling meaning that some people you think shouldn't get the drugs get them.
  - asdff 4y ago
    There's other ways to realign incentives. A buy back program would do a lot honestly to restrict the supply. A lot of people who got them for legit purposes would still end up with a ton leftover when they would get their next prescription. If they were able to get more money returning them to the pharmacy or counting them towards their next prescription than selling them to other students, that's what they would do.
    - iamevn 4y ago
      I am prescribed to take one pill each day. I prefer to keep this up on the weekends because I like being able to function even when I'm not being paid to. I can only fill a prescription once a month. The pill bottles have 28 pills in them. What possibly would be left over?
      - asdff 4y ago
        Most people I knew who were on them weren't taking the dosage they were being prescribed. The side effects were too much taking it daily, so they would just use it if they were spending a lot of time in the library that day, and would end the month with half the bottle still by the time they reupped. Just because you have ADHD and benefit sometimes from these meds doesn't mean you feel great being on them 100% of the time nor need to be taking them if you are not doing anything mentally demanding that day. It's basically meth lite, after all.
        iamevn 4y ago
        My experience is that I feel significantly better when I am on my meds and am able to function consistently. I envy people who function well enough off their meds that they can be choosy about when they take them. I have no experience with meth but my understanding is that it is only superficially similar to meth.
- notch898a 4y ago
  I'm not interested in protecting the people that game their doctor. They decided on their own they wanted the drug and dishonestly represented themselves to obtain it. That's their own prerogative, if that causes problems then that should not result in punishment for those acting with honesty. This is not "just. like. Oxy." in so many cases. Many of these were people in pain management with zero deceit involved on the side of the patient.
- junofan 4y ago
  ADHD is an ADA-recognized disability. I doubt you’d support secret limits on mobility scooter orders because college kids sometimes steal golf carts. Why is this different?
  - showdeddd 4y ago
    Because Adderall is 100% pure speed. A handful of Adderalls is more fun than a bag of cocaine (which is going to be more like 5% purity and adulterated with god knows what).
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      Mobility scooters can also be abused for a good time
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      Maybe if you stop taking Adderall for fun you won't need to compare it to your bags of cocaine.
    - OkayPhysicist 4y ago
      Don't talk out of your ass. Cocaine comes with a much, much bigger euphoric rush than even methamphetamine, which has a much bigger rush than amphetamine. If your coke is less fun than some focus enhancement, it's because somebody sold you a gram of baking powder. Basically all stimulants can be categorized by a level of euphoric rush, and a level of focus they provide. Caffeine sucks at both, methamphetamine rocks at both, cocaine's good for a body rush but isn't very good for focus, and amphetamine comes with relatively little euphoria for a methamphetamine-comparable level of focus.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      >A handful of Adderalls is more fun than a bag of cocaine Yeah, this is fear mongering; and I doubt any abuse you are seeing is actually happening on any sort of scale. To imply adderall is more fun than Cocaine/Cocaethylene is a completely strange assertion given cocaine's continued and greater penetration despite the fact it's a highly controlled schedule 2 drug. If you could have more fun with adderall, why would you spend more money on cocaine?
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  Sounds "Just. Like. Oxy." in that people who have no idea what they're talking about go based on their gut feelings as if science and medicine should yield to their imagination: I mean I'm sure your diabetes is horrible but try telling someone taking insulin to stop. They won't. They depend on not being in a diabetic coma too much! And not slipping into a diabetic coma becomes a part of their personality. - ADHD doesn't mean hyperactivity despite hyperactivity being in the name. For me not taking ADHD medication results in what your proclivity for drug abuse was gaining you: the super human ability to focus on one thing for hours and hours at a time. The difference is when the drugs you were abusing wore off, you'd go back to being able to do other things. I'd just keep being prisoner of whatever I'm doing indefinitely. It's an awful feeling to know you have to do something else, you really need to switch tasks right now, but it's like you're a prisoner in your own mind, just stuck. So subjecting myself to that isn't really something I'd willingly... is that surprising? I mean I've personally requested lower doses of medications, leaned towards less "intrusive" delivery methods like metabolized extended release versions, and stopped when I was injured and unable to do much (being stuck mentally wasn't a big deal when I was physically stuck) But even if someone else dealing with this doesn't want to do that, I don't blame them. It's an awful disease that deserves proper treatment. Some dumb drug abusing kid isn't going to change that.
- zamnos 4y ago
  That's only true if you squint real hard. Might as well say people are addicted to oxygen or food if you're going to oversimplify that far. Plenty of people are able to learn meaningful coping strategies for their ADHD and choose to go off medication (especially those medicated from a young age), or at least off of stimulant medication, choosing instead to treat their disease with non-stimulant options. You'd also have to ignore the fact that they're, umm, different drugs, and do different things. The pain relief granted by opiates, along with them being chemically addictive and the marketing put forth by Perdue Pharma leading to addiction, for which they've paid billion of dollars in fines. There have been no such issues for AmerisourceBergen Corp., Cardinal Health Inc. and McKesson Corp. The thing about the drugs being different is the results on people's lives. Off medication and unmanaged, people suffering from ADHD go into depressive slumps of executive dysfunction and are unable to perform their EDLs (EveryDay Living activities; showering, putting on clothes, feeding one's self, using the bathroom, exercising), never mind things like cleaning, holding down a job or paying rent. Most are able to keep at the same dosage for the majority of their lives. That's not what people happens to people chemically addicted to Oxy. They need more and more to get the same effect, and chase after it to the point that many have become hooked on heroin, absent a prescribed supply of Oxycontin. While on the drug their lives turn to shambles, getting fired from work and losing their jobs and then their housing and end up living on the street. That difference is entirely material to the discussion. If people are able to make more of themselves on a particular medication, society is able to accept that a medication is good, rather than bad. That may be a tough pill for some to swallow, especially those that want to reject traditional societal norms for judging a person's life. Another tough pill is that the idea that Adderall blunts a person should really be considered a fringe belief these days, given how many people use Adderall to better their lives. Are their people that abuse Adderall? Sure. Are their many more people that don't, and live much richer lives thanks to prescribed medication from a doctor? Absolutely.
- munk-a 4y ago
  Personally I'd really really appreciate if you would dial back the medication shaming a fair amount. As someone who can function with a lot of effort and the support of medication and who has gotten into several rough spots in life when I've suddenly run out of meds and have needed to motivate myself independently to refill them... please don't opine on what other people's experiences are. Additionally, Adderall and the like aren't just like +2 INT boosts - the stimulants have a different affect on most people with ADHD than it would on a regular person... so whatever you've experienced abusing the medication is probably quite a bit different from what I'll experience using it.
westmeal 4y ago
I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the tests I was given that led to my diagnosis were frankly bullshit. Looking back it seemed incredibly easy and 'hand wavy' for the doc to just shut up the parent and schools and write up a prescription to 'solve the problem'. In my eyes, the only problem I had is that I thought school was a meaningless chore. Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in?
- romwell 4y ago
  > Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in? >take meth Ah yes, the good old "Adderall is meth" ridiculousness. Sure, Adderall is amphetamine, and meth is methamphetamine, just one methyl group of a difference - practically the same thing, right? Just like ethanol (aka vodka) and methanol (deadly poison, makes you blind) - one one ethyl group difference, practically the same thing! Please stop referring to medication[1] many people rely on as "meth". Or if you must do so - consider having a shot of methanol next time you go for a drink. If it's the same to you, then why not? [1]https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication
- fzzzy 4y ago
  Good comment, but Adderall is Amphetamine, not Methamphetamine. Big difference.
  - OkayPhysicist 4y ago
    Methamphetamine can be prescribed for ADHD under the trade name Desoxyn, but it's less common because the side effects are worse.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

iamdbtoo 4y ago

It sounds a little bit of a conspiracy because it's rooted in misinformation.

EngManagerIsMe 4y ago

Left handedness used to be about 2% of the US population. Now it's about 12%. While it could be that somehow we've got an epidemic of left-handedness that blossomed in the 1920s, what's much more likely is that we've gotten more accommodating and understanding of left handed people, so there was less incentive to fit the mold of right handed folks. I'm sure there were people who were alarmed at that rise, who felt that we didn't really need left handed tools and accommodations for the "2% of people who are left handed", but when you made those things available, we stabilized at about 12%. Antidepressants and ADHD meds are, imo, in a similar place -- we've increased our understanding, we've increased our accommodations, we no longer force the people who experience those maladies into the stress of acting 'normal'. Once you remove demonization, of course diagnosis are going to skyrocket. When it's no longer a scary thing to admit depression, ADHD, or autism, it becomes easier to get evaluated and care for them. I experience depression, I am on an SSRI, it helps me a TON. Historically, I might have been involuntarily committed or been told to "deal with it". I guarantee you I would not be as successful as I am now if I didn't have the support I do. (Similarly, I expect you see a lot more people being "out" in the LGBTQ+ community as a result of a similar phenomena. Once it's no longer criminal or "get lynched" territory, we see numbers of gay and trans folks increase.) These things seem like fads. They usually aren't, they are usually the case of a particular mode of people being pressured to be silent and invisible. When you remove that negative stigma, the revert to the mean can be dramatic, but it will stabilize at a new normal level.

notch898a 4y ago
I've also noticed family members benefit greatly from SSRIs. The main skeptic point I have is I've also seen them absolutely get wrecked by what appears to them as supply chain failures (usually because they're unable to get a meeting with a physician in time for refills and no physician will grant them a "bridge" to the next appointment). Of course as we saw during COVID, supply chain failures of all sorts are possible even when society has not collapsed. From the outside one of the biggest concerns I have is one of these supply chain failures will put them in even worse place than had they never taken them, as I've personally seen their withdrawal symptoms look far worse than their unmedicated baseline. It seems to be a "better day to day" with the added risk of extreme withdrawal and associated risks during these few in a lifetime supply failures.

epolanski 4y ago

I second this feeling, it seems like not only they are overprescribed but it's done at very young ages. Doctors just throw ADHD at signs of hyperactivity. The idea of creating generations after generations unable to function without drugs seems a social disaster. It's so odd, and also very specific to US.

neilparikh 4y ago

The real answer (IMO) is that ADHD is both under-diagnosed and over-diagnosed. I know many people who would benefit from a ADHD diagnosis, but aren't diagnosed yet, and just kind of struggle through as best as they can. On the flip side, it's also somewhat common for people to be diagnosed incorrectly (either due an over eager doctor, or because they sought out the diagnosis to get the drug). So really, it's a question of improving accuracy overall, not just "let's make things stricter" (which would make it even harder from those are not diagnosed yet). (I know you mentioned prescribing, not diagnosing, but I think it's a broader issue beyond just the drug).

spiralx 4y ago
Adults, females and minorities are all under-diagnosed compared to the estimated 2-4% of the population with ADHD. And I'd guess that diagnosis rates are higher across the board in the USA than elsewhere - I read the other day only 1 in 1,000 adults in Scotland have been diagnosed with ADHD, at least an order of magnitude fewer than those who would benefit from it. https://www.additudemag.com/statistics-of-adhd/ https://www.additudemag.com/statistics-of-adhd/

opportune 4y ago

Ok, then the DEA should do something like go after pill mills and overprescribers or at the very least apply quotas based on time of starting treatment, ie limiting new diagnoses. The latter should be easy to do because of all the scheduled drug regulations and tracking they have already. Making it so everybody with a medication gets screwed is idiotic. I don’t even think it’s worth stopping people from taking it personally, anybody willing to fake the medical system could just as easily take street meth instead, which will be a lot worse for society. Reminds me of when the heroin epidemic went into overdrive after the DEA cracked down on pain clinics, then leading to the fentanyl epidemic, and how many deaths? I’m sure it was worth it though