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I’d never want to rely on the power grid to be mobile in a widespread emergency. EV might be okay as a second car. I’ve lived through civil unrest so maybe just

I’d never want to rely on the power grid to be mobile in a widespread emergency. EV might be okay as a second car. I’ve lived through civil unrest so maybe just my bias.

baggachipz 4y ago
You rely on the power grid for gasoline too. Gas doesn't pump without electricity. Also, refineries are a more concentrated source of failure than power stations and a grid.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  If I'm getting nervous from Civil Unrest (or just a really bad snowstorm coming up in Canada), I can always grab a few 5-gallon containers, fill them up at a Gas Station, and keep them in my garage just in case, along with filling up my car. If nothing happens, I'll just use them up. If something does happen... I don't want to be the guy with the EV trying to get away when everyone else is also trying to use the EV charging stations for the same reason. If the charging stations are even functional. Plus, an electric car (or any valuable car) is prime target during civil unrest. It's fun to destroy expensive stuff. It's not fun to destroy a mid-2000s Civic.
  - optymizer 4y ago
    I understand buying something extra just to be prepared, but to drive a Civic because someone might destroy it 5 years from now seems like optimizing for 0.001% of the time at the expense of 99.999% of your time. Plus, there's insurance.
  - organsnyder 4y ago
    Just keep your car charged (easy to do with at-home charging) and you'll almost always have 200+ miles of range available. If you need to travel further than that to safety, you have bigger problems (and traffic will probably be jammed to the point of roads being unusable anyways).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Gasoline can be more easily stored and moved around than electricity. Just don't forget the fuel stabilizer and you're good.
  - brandonagr2 4y ago
    Gasoline can't be manufactured in your backyard, the solar panels on my roof produce over 100 kwh per day half the year, with battery storage my house and transportation can function without grid support.
- freemanofthewan 4y ago
  Most people have a gas can. or 6. Most people don't have battery storage for electricity.
  - krzyk 4y ago
    No people that I know have a gas can. They had, like 30 years ago, but nowadays, not a single person. I think it would be easier to find a battery storage in one of the houses that have solar panels (like 50% of them in my neighborhood) than a gas can.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      This may be an apartment dweller/SFH split kind of thing. I have multiple gasoline, diesel and oil/gas mix cans. Most people around here do, for lawnmowers, snowthrowers, chainsaws, etc. The only time I didn't have one was when I lived in apartments.
      - krzyk 4y ago
        I live in a house, but I don't own a oil based lawnmowers, chainsaws etc. (just battery or direct electric), I don't have such a large property to justify oil ones :) My in-laws have a larger property but they also go with electric based tools, but yeah one of their neighbors does have such lawnmower (I would probably buy robot one, but...). But you are right I forgot that there are tools that do require gasoline, 30 years ago those gas cans were used for storing gasoline for use in a car or motor (when I lived in apartments).
- user3939382 4y ago
  All you need to get gas in a bad situation is a 4 foot tube
JohnFen 4y ago
Whether your car is electric or not, you're relying on an external power distribution system to keep it working. Gas has to be moved to you just as much as electricity does.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  It's very easy to store 1000mi worth of fuel and take it with you. It's not very easy to store 1000mi worth of range for an EV.
  - jackmott42 4y ago
    Now you are just doing last of us fever dreams.
    - reisse 4y ago
      Just a year ago, that was not remotely fever dreams for a lot of people in Ukraine.
    - katbyte 4y ago
      I offroad and camp in the backcountry a lot, often 100s of km from the nearest gas station (let alone anything with an ev charger) and then might be driving area the area hiking/climbing away from camp. Hard for an ev to beat two 20L jerry cans adding 300km of range to a tank with 450, in the winter, with 500lb of gear. I imagine one day a PHEV will replace my truck but we’re not there yet. Don’t take the collapse of society to suddenly need to grab a few jerry cans and travel a long way quick where there is no ev chargers
    - thepasswordis 4y ago
      Well...I'm replying to the person above me. But also: I find this attitude a bit silly. The last 3 years have kindof proven the preppers right, haven't they?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  If you're running a diesel vehicle, all you need is a tank in your shed (for ~1000€ [1]) and an inverter powered by your car's 12V battery to run the pump. Assuming your vehicle is barely efficient (10 l / 100km), a full tank load is enough to last you for 10.000km. Electric vehicles are a bit harder, but even there, it's possible to install enough solar panels and battery storage to last virtually infinitely. Disaster resilience is easy to achieve, if a bit expensive if you're going on a "full societal breakdown" scenario. No matter what, unless you're a grain farmer with storage, you're running out of food way before running out of transportation. [1] https://www.geratech-tankanlagen.de/tankanlagen-diesel-adblue/hoftankstelle-1000-liter-komplett/a-10302/ https://www.geratech-tankanlagen.de/tankanlagen-diesel-adblu...
exitheone 4y ago
Portable Generators are a thing and a hell of a lot cheaper than a car. Buy one and stock gasoline for an emergency and you are fine.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  Gasoline has a somewhat short shelf life.
  - slaw 4y ago
    Gasoline polluted with ethanol has short shelf life. Clean gasoline should last few years.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    You rotate it. So keep some in the garage, use it, refill the cans instead of your car.
- krzyk 4y ago
  How to stock gasoline? Isn't it a fire hazard? And I won't be digging up a hole in yard and turn into a petrol station.
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Oh, but you do, even if you drive a traditional car! Most gas stations - for both diesel and gasoline - rely on electricity to pump the gas. No electic = no gas. The stations that run during outages generally have generators to do so. You might have some luck for a short time. After that, no power, no generator, no gas. The trucks won't even be able to get diesel to deliver it to you.
- somerandomqaguy 4y ago
  ..... ? A small backup generator is all that's required for the gas pumps to work. The state of Florida now mandates gas stations have back up power on evacuation routes, a law enacted from painful lessons learned from all of the problems caused by Hurricanes Wilma and Katrina. The state of Louisiana I believe also has a similar requirement but I haven't checked. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0526/Sections/0526.143.html http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...
- user3939382 4y ago
  I mentioned in another comment, this is true, but all you really need to get gas if the gloves are off is a short tube or hose.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
In which case you'd be far better served with an electric car and rooftop solar. Gas supplies disappear. Electricity is needed to run pumps. But no one can cut off a home solar generation system short of bombing your house.

I’d never want to rely on the power grid to be mobile in a widespread emergency. EV might be okay as a second car. I’ve lived through civil unrest so maybe just my bias.

baggachipz 4y ago

You rely on the power grid for gasoline too. Gas doesn't pump without electricity. Also, refineries are a more concentrated source of failure than power stations and a grid.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
If I'm getting nervous from Civil Unrest (or just a really bad snowstorm coming up in Canada), I can always grab a few 5-gallon containers, fill them up at a Gas Station, and keep them in my garage just in case, along with filling up my car. If nothing happens, I'll just use them up. If something does happen... I don't want to be the guy with the EV trying to get away when everyone else is also trying to use the EV charging stations for the same reason. If the charging stations are even functional. Plus, an electric car (or any valuable car) is prime target during civil unrest. It's fun to destroy expensive stuff. It's not fun to destroy a mid-2000s Civic.
- optymizer 4y ago
  I understand buying something extra just to be prepared, but to drive a Civic because someone might destroy it 5 years from now seems like optimizing for 0.001% of the time at the expense of 99.999% of your time. Plus, there's insurance.
- organsnyder 4y ago
  Just keep your car charged (easy to do with at-home charging) and you'll almost always have 200+ miles of range available. If you need to travel further than that to safety, you have bigger problems (and traffic will probably be jammed to the point of roads being unusable anyways).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Gasoline can be more easily stored and moved around than electricity. Just don't forget the fuel stabilizer and you're good.
- brandonagr2 4y ago
  Gasoline can't be manufactured in your backyard, the solar panels on my roof produce over 100 kwh per day half the year, with battery storage my house and transportation can function without grid support.
freemanofthewan 4y ago
Most people have a gas can. or 6. Most people don't have battery storage for electricity.
- krzyk 4y ago
  No people that I know have a gas can. They had, like 30 years ago, but nowadays, not a single person. I think it would be easier to find a battery storage in one of the houses that have solar panels (like 50% of them in my neighborhood) than a gas can.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    This may be an apartment dweller/SFH split kind of thing. I have multiple gasoline, diesel and oil/gas mix cans. Most people around here do, for lawnmowers, snowthrowers, chainsaws, etc. The only time I didn't have one was when I lived in apartments.
    - krzyk 4y ago
      I live in a house, but I don't own a oil based lawnmowers, chainsaws etc. (just battery or direct electric), I don't have such a large property to justify oil ones :) My in-laws have a larger property but they also go with electric based tools, but yeah one of their neighbors does have such lawnmower (I would probably buy robot one, but...). But you are right I forgot that there are tools that do require gasoline, 30 years ago those gas cans were used for storing gasoline for use in a car or motor (when I lived in apartments).
user3939382 4y ago
All you need to get gas in a bad situation is a 4 foot tube

JohnFen 4y ago

Whether your car is electric or not, you're relying on an external power distribution system to keep it working. Gas has to be moved to you just as much as electricity does.

thepasswordis 4y ago
It's very easy to store 1000mi worth of fuel and take it with you. It's not very easy to store 1000mi worth of range for an EV.
- jackmott42 4y ago
  Now you are just doing last of us fever dreams.
  - reisse 4y ago
    Just a year ago, that was not remotely fever dreams for a lot of people in Ukraine.
  - katbyte 4y ago
    I offroad and camp in the backcountry a lot, often 100s of km from the nearest gas station (let alone anything with an ev charger) and then might be driving area the area hiking/climbing away from camp. Hard for an ev to beat two 20L jerry cans adding 300km of range to a tank with 450, in the winter, with 500lb of gear. I imagine one day a PHEV will replace my truck but we’re not there yet. Don’t take the collapse of society to suddenly need to grab a few jerry cans and travel a long way quick where there is no ev chargers
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    Well...I'm replying to the person above me. But also: I find this attitude a bit silly. The last 3 years have kindof proven the preppers right, haven't they?
mschuster91 4y ago
If you're running a diesel vehicle, all you need is a tank in your shed (for ~1000€ [1]) and an inverter powered by your car's 12V battery to run the pump. Assuming your vehicle is barely efficient (10 l / 100km), a full tank load is enough to last you for 10.000km. Electric vehicles are a bit harder, but even there, it's possible to install enough solar panels and battery storage to last virtually infinitely. Disaster resilience is easy to achieve, if a bit expensive if you're going on a "full societal breakdown" scenario. No matter what, unless you're a grain farmer with storage, you're running out of food way before running out of transportation. [1] https://www.geratech-tankanlagen.de/tankanlagen-diesel-adblue/hoftankstelle-1000-liter-komplett/a-10302/ https://www.geratech-tankanlagen.de/tankanlagen-diesel-adblu...

exitheone 4y ago

Portable Generators are a thing and a hell of a lot cheaper than a car. Buy one and stock gasoline for an emergency and you are fine.

Eisenstein 4y ago
Gasoline has a somewhat short shelf life.
- slaw 4y ago
  Gasoline polluted with ethanol has short shelf life. Clean gasoline should last few years.
- user3939382 4y ago
  You rotate it. So keep some in the garage, use it, refill the cans instead of your car.
krzyk 4y ago
How to stock gasoline? Isn't it a fire hazard? And I won't be digging up a hole in yard and turn into a petrol station.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago

Oh, but you do, even if you drive a traditional car! Most gas stations - for both diesel and gasoline - rely on electricity to pump the gas. No electic = no gas. The stations that run during outages generally have generators to do so. You might have some luck for a short time. After that, no power, no generator, no gas. The trucks won't even be able to get diesel to deliver it to you.

somerandomqaguy 4y ago
..... ? A small backup generator is all that's required for the gas pumps to work. The state of Florida now mandates gas stations have back up power on evacuation routes, a law enacted from painful lessons learned from all of the problems caused by Hurricanes Wilma and Katrina. The state of Louisiana I believe also has a similar requirement but I haven't checked. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0526/Sections/0526.143.html http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...
user3939382 4y ago
I mentioned in another comment, this is true, but all you really need to get gas if the gloves are off is a short tube or hose.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago

In which case you'd be far better served with an electric car and rooftop solar. Gas supplies disappear. Electricity is needed to run pumps. But no one can cut off a home solar generation system short of bombing your house.