4 ms·

I've gone through a milder version of this since the pandemic. I was laid off overnight and I moved back to my hometown, and have ever since worked remotely.

by mkl95 4y ago

I've gone through a milder version of this since the pandemic. I was laid off overnight and I moved back to my hometown, and have ever since worked remotely. Property is extremely expensive in the area, so I'm forced to live with my family despite making more money than all of them combined. My also-employed-friends are doing even worse than me financially, and it has killed my social life completely. I can see why these Japanese guys feel like that - after all they have always lived in a crisis that may never end. Some people simply give up when they face an endless grind (ironically, this may remind you of some Asian MMORPGs).

waboremo 4y ago
I think there are just so many layers at which we as a society are failing at, and it's forcing so many people to become "invisible". You read stories about these recluses, and it's not a far fetch from most of us. Sure, some of them are suffering from severe disorders or are unmedicated, but for a lot of them they want to be part of society but feel stuck. Can't get minimum wage jobs because they have no work experience, no references. Can't go back to school because no money. Can't continue their social life because they feel such deep levels of guilt for having to live with their family. So much of our social systems are based not on prevention and providing as much help throughout to reduce risk, but rather to wait until things get so bad it's near impossible to get out. Our health system works like this. Our school system works like this (bullying being dismissed was a big reoccurrence when I was reading these articles on hikikomori). Don't even get me started on the online layers of failure, so many platforms are places where miserable people congregate and encourage others to become as miserable. They convince each other the "sky is falling, give up now". 4chan is an example of such a place, you don't believe some of the extreme absurdities keeping you from reintegrating on there unless you've already started to isolate yourself (again part of the above failure of our social systems not letting people get help early), and those miserable folks take advantage of this. Layer after layer of massive failures. I hope you can invite your friends over to your family's house, alongside their family and have a big social feast even if the feast is just whatever is filling and affordable. We should be pulling each other closer, providing more support and empathy, not pulling away.
mistermann 4y ago
> Property is extremely expensive in the area, so I'm forced to live with my family despite making more money than all of them combined. It's weird how surreal this is but we kinda we just accept it as "the way it is". I guess there's not really any alternative in existence at this point, and if tabled legislation is passed it may become legally (and maybe even physically) impossible to bring something into existence. What a tangled web we've woven for ourselves to live in, but I guess that was the will of the people so there you go, we got what we asked for.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >What a tangled web we've woven for ourselves to live in, but I guess that was the will of the people so there you go, we got what we asked for. That's exactly what happened, at least in the US. I can't speak for other countries such as in Europe. Americans wanted Euclidean zoning, subdivisions, no walkability, giant yards, a car-centric society, NIMBYism, and racism and classism baked into land-use laws, and now they're living with the effects of all that: unaffordable housing. Talking to Americans about this is futile and exasperating, and pointless. You might talk to one and they'll agree about a few points, but then suggest changing laws to let someone build a multi-unit building next to their single-family house and they'll freak out. Suggest eliminating parking requirements and they'll scream. Suggest improving public transit and cutting back on road budgets and they'll cry about "socialism". It's hopeless: Americans simply don't want to live in the kind of society you see in urban Europe or Japan, because they all want to have their own castle, but that simply isn't sustainable. It only worked as long as it did because of the postwar economic boom and America's huge land area, but now the chickens are coming home to roost.
  - mistermann 4y ago
    > Talking to Americans about this is futile and exasperating, and pointless. I would say: it depends. Doing so in small quantities I can certainly agree with the sentiment, but if you talk to people in massive quantities, especially in certain ways, over time you start to notice patterns in their speech, and it seems reasonable to presume that this reflects patterns in thought. It may not seem like it, but we live in a system, and like all systems it can be analyzed. It doesn't have to be though....one can go through their whole life just taking all of this weirdness for granted as most people do, but imagine if the pioneers of science decided to just shrug their shoulders at all the patterns they saw around them? Where would we be if not for anomalies like them?

by mkl95 4y ago

waboremo 4y ago

I think there are just so many layers at which we as a society are failing at, and it's forcing so many people to become "invisible". You read stories about these recluses, and it's not a far fetch from most of us. Sure, some of them are suffering from severe disorders or are unmedicated, but for a lot of them they want to be part of society but feel stuck. Can't get minimum wage jobs because they have no work experience, no references. Can't go back to school because no money. Can't continue their social life because they feel such deep levels of guilt for having to live with their family. So much of our social systems are based not on prevention and providing as much help throughout to reduce risk, but rather to wait until things get so bad it's near impossible to get out. Our health system works like this. Our school system works like this (bullying being dismissed was a big reoccurrence when I was reading these articles on hikikomori). Don't even get me started on the online layers of failure, so many platforms are places where miserable people congregate and encourage others to become as miserable. They convince each other the "sky is falling, give up now". 4chan is an example of such a place, you don't believe some of the extreme absurdities keeping you from reintegrating on there unless you've already started to isolate yourself (again part of the above failure of our social systems not letting people get help early), and those miserable folks take advantage of this. Layer after layer of massive failures. I hope you can invite your friends over to your family's house, alongside their family and have a big social feast even if the feast is just whatever is filling and affordable. We should be pulling each other closer, providing more support and empathy, not pulling away.

mistermann 4y ago

> Property is extremely expensive in the area, so I'm forced to live with my family despite making more money than all of them combined. It's weird how surreal this is but we kinda we just accept it as "the way it is". I guess there's not really any alternative in existence at this point, and if tabled legislation is passed it may become legally (and maybe even physically) impossible to bring something into existence. What a tangled web we've woven for ourselves to live in, but I guess that was the will of the people so there you go, we got what we asked for.

midoridensha 4y ago
>What a tangled web we've woven for ourselves to live in, but I guess that was the will of the people so there you go, we got what we asked for. That's exactly what happened, at least in the US. I can't speak for other countries such as in Europe. Americans wanted Euclidean zoning, subdivisions, no walkability, giant yards, a car-centric society, NIMBYism, and racism and classism baked into land-use laws, and now they're living with the effects of all that: unaffordable housing. Talking to Americans about this is futile and exasperating, and pointless. You might talk to one and they'll agree about a few points, but then suggest changing laws to let someone build a multi-unit building next to their single-family house and they'll freak out. Suggest eliminating parking requirements and they'll scream. Suggest improving public transit and cutting back on road budgets and they'll cry about "socialism". It's hopeless: Americans simply don't want to live in the kind of society you see in urban Europe or Japan, because they all want to have their own castle, but that simply isn't sustainable. It only worked as long as it did because of the postwar economic boom and America's huge land area, but now the chickens are coming home to roost.
- mistermann 4y ago
  > Talking to Americans about this is futile and exasperating, and pointless. I would say: it depends. Doing so in small quantities I can certainly agree with the sentiment, but if you talk to people in massive quantities, especially in certain ways, over time you start to notice patterns in their speech, and it seems reasonable to presume that this reflects patterns in thought. It may not seem like it, but we live in a system, and like all systems it can be analyzed. It doesn't have to be though....one can go through their whole life just taking all of this weirdness for granted as most people do, but imagine if the pioneers of science decided to just shrug their shoulders at all the patterns they saw around them? Where would we be if not for anomalies like them?