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> Retcon again After IE6 achieved it's goal of destroying the competition, Microsoft literally disbanded the development team. Why would they do that for a ve

> Retcon again After IE6 achieved it's goal of destroying the competition, Microsoft literally disbanded the development team. Why would they do that for a very successful product? Because the web didn't have potential? Firefox started innovation back again a bit, but it took chrome and Google's want to applicationize the web to really kick us into gear. https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-history-1025602/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-history-10256... > A few days before Google Chrome launched, Google released a blog post titled “A fresh take on the browser.” The post explained that they were releasing this new browser because they believed they could “add value for users and, at the same time, help drive innovation on the web.” > Third, Google saw Chrome as more than just a browser by developing it with rich, interactive web applications in mind. Lastly, it offered tab “sandboxing,” which kept the entire browser from crashing when one website crashed. ... > And then when you actually read what people are saying, it turns out they only develop on Chrome, couldn't be arsed to develop for or test on other browser I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. And if you want to test Safari? You literally have to buy a dedicated piece of hardware for it. You wonder why it isn't tested? So here's a browser that fails to just work, even when you primarily use Firefox to build the page. You have to buy extra hardware to test on it. And you blame the developer?

illiarian 4y ago
> A few days before Google Chrome launched, Google released a blog post titled “A fresh take on the browser.” The post explained that they were releasing this new browser because they believed they could “add value for users and, at the same time, help drive innovation on the web.” What Google says, and what Google does are two very different non-intersecting things. Edit: Google's maps and docs etc. ran just fine in WebKit. What Google wanted was control. What they did with that control we all know. For example, sabotaged Firefox: https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871237240852480 https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871237240852480 > I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. Doubt. > So here's a browser that fails to just work, even when you primarily use Firefox to build the page. Funnily how I've used Safari as my primary browser since 2007, and I've been a web developer for far longer than that... and I haven't run into these issues everyone on HN pretends to have. > And you blame the developer? Yes, yes I do. Always. Even in the days of IE6 the problem was always with the developer.
- recursive 4y ago
  > > I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. > Doubt. For what it's worth, my development profile is similar. I would say that Safari works most of the time, but I get browser-specific failures from it at a noticeably higher rate than Chrome-derivatives. One memorable one, if you're curious, was triggered because of a minification step. Terser[0] has a special argument `--safari10` to emit code that's supported by Safari. I discovered this argument after running into the bug. [0]: https://github.com/terser/terser https://github.com/terser/terser
  - illiarian 4y ago
    > Terser[0] has a special argument `--safari10` to emit code that's supported by Safari. I discovered this argument after running into the bug. So the problem is with the tool, not with the Safari it seems. Without an explanation what "non-standard" is about Safari 10/11 it's on the same level as the rest of hand wringing on HN.
    - recursive 4y ago
      > So the problem is with the tool, not with the Safari it seems. You're making an assumption. I'm not sure where you're getting that. From what I recall, it was common `const` or parameter declarations in nested scopes. Safari was (is?) unambiguously wrong. Edit: here's the bug: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171041 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171041

illiarian 4y ago

> A few days before Google Chrome launched, Google released a blog post titled “A fresh take on the browser.” The post explained that they were releasing this new browser because they believed they could “add value for users and, at the same time, help drive innovation on the web.” What Google says, and what Google does are two very different non-intersecting things. Edit: Google's maps and docs etc. ran just fine in WebKit. What Google wanted was control. What they did with that control we all know. For example, sabotaged Firefox: https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871237240852480 https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871237240852480 > I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. Doubt. > So here's a browser that fails to just work, even when you primarily use Firefox to build the page. Funnily how I've used Safari as my primary browser since 2007, and I've been a web developer for far longer than that... and I haven't run into these issues everyone on HN pretends to have. > And you blame the developer? Yes, yes I do. Always. Even in the days of IE6 the problem was always with the developer.

recursive 4y ago
> > I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. > Doubt. For what it's worth, my development profile is similar. I would say that Safari works most of the time, but I get browser-specific failures from it at a noticeably higher rate than Chrome-derivatives. One memorable one, if you're curious, was triggered because of a minification step. Terser[0] has a special argument `--safari10` to emit code that's supported by Safari. I discovered this argument after running into the bug. [0]: https://github.com/terser/terser https://github.com/terser/terser
- illiarian 4y ago
  > Terser[0] has a special argument `--safari10` to emit code that's supported by Safari. I discovered this argument after running into the bug. So the problem is with the tool, not with the Safari it seems. Without an explanation what "non-standard" is about Safari 10/11 it's on the same level as the rest of hand wringing on HN.
  - recursive 4y ago
    > So the problem is with the tool, not with the Safari it seems. You're making an assumption. I'm not sure where you're getting that. From what I recall, it was common `const` or parameter declarations in nested scopes. Safari was (is?) unambiguously wrong. Edit: here's the bug: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171041 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171041