4 ms·

Birds with toxic feathers are already known, for those wondering, though many species in New Guinea are unstudied; much of the interior is very hard to access t

by retrac 4y ago

Birds with toxic feathers are already known, for those wondering, though many species in New Guinea are unstudied; much of the interior is very hard to access to this day: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooded_pitohui https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooded_pitohui It's thought they do not produce the toxin themselves. It's absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use the same compounds. They have developed a resistance and ability to concentrate it in the skin and feathers. Supposedly, some species are so toxic that simply holding one in bare hands will result in a creeping numbing sensation climbing up one's arms. Fortunately it's reversible in small amounts.

stametseater 4y ago
> It's thought they do not produce the toxin themselves. It's absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use the same compounds. From what I understand, those frogs in turn acquire the toxin from their diet of various arthropods, and aren't toxic when kept in captivity. Makes me wonder how long a chain of diet-acquired toxicity could stretch.
- _a_a_a_ 4y ago
  It would stop at me. I'd eat it and die. So there's your upper bound.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    You assume that nobody would eat you. (which is probably fine in practice, but in theory...)
Huludrawn 4y ago
> It's absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use the same compounds. Hey can you tell me where you read that? I went through a lot of articles and most suggest that insects are the most likely source of the toxin. Maybe I missed something.
- retrac 4y ago
  No, you're correct. I misremembered; the way the birds acquire the toxin is analogous to some poison frogs that are toxic the same way. Acquired through diet of poisonous insects. Apologies.
  - Huludrawn 4y ago
    Hey, no problem. I was genuinely curious, as I have only read about insects.
- pelagicAustral 4y ago
  Not directly mentioning frogs but this [0] paper offers more details on the particular toxin type (Batrachotoxin), which in turn. is present in bettles, birds and frogs [1]. Also, check this argument suggesting they evolved (frogs and birds) the compound in parallel. [2] > Homobatrachotoxin is a member of a class of compounds collectively called batrachotoxins that were previously considered to be restricted to neotropical poison-dart frogs of the genus Phyllobates. The occurrence of homobatrachotoxin in pitohuis suggests that birds and frogs independently evolved this class of alkaloids. [0] Dumbacher, J. P., & Fleischer, R. C. (2001). Phylogenetic evidence for colour pattern convergence in toxic pitohuis: Mullerian mimicry in birds? Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 268(1480), 1971–1976. doi:10.1098/rspb.2001.1717 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batrachotoxin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batrachotoxin [2] Dumbacher, J., Beehler, B., Spande, T., Garraffo, H., & Daly, J. (1992). Homobatrachotoxin in the genus Pitohui: chemical defense in birds? Science, 258(5083), 799–801. doi:10.1126/science.1439786
  - Huludrawn 4y ago
    Thanks for the input and the additional information.

by retrac 4y ago

stametseater 4y ago

> It's thought they do not produce the toxin themselves. It's absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use the same compounds. From what I understand, those frogs in turn acquire the toxin from their diet of various arthropods, and aren't toxic when kept in captivity. Makes me wonder how long a chain of diet-acquired toxicity could stretch.

_a_a_a_ 4y ago
It would stop at me. I'd eat it and die. So there's your upper bound.
- klyrs 4y ago
  You assume that nobody would eat you. (which is probably fine in practice, but in theory...)

Huludrawn 4y ago

> It's absorbed from their diet, probably from toxic frogs that use the same compounds. Hey can you tell me where you read that? I went through a lot of articles and most suggest that insects are the most likely source of the toxin. Maybe I missed something.

retrac 4y ago
No, you're correct. I misremembered; the way the birds acquire the toxin is analogous to some poison frogs that are toxic the same way. Acquired through diet of poisonous insects. Apologies.
- Huludrawn 4y ago
  Hey, no problem. I was genuinely curious, as I have only read about insects.
pelagicAustral 4y ago
Not directly mentioning frogs but this [0] paper offers more details on the particular toxin type (Batrachotoxin), which in turn. is present in bettles, birds and frogs [1]. Also, check this argument suggesting they evolved (frogs and birds) the compound in parallel. [2] > Homobatrachotoxin is a member of a class of compounds collectively called batrachotoxins that were previously considered to be restricted to neotropical poison-dart frogs of the genus Phyllobates. The occurrence of homobatrachotoxin in pitohuis suggests that birds and frogs independently evolved this class of alkaloids. [0] Dumbacher, J. P., & Fleischer, R. C. (2001). Phylogenetic evidence for colour pattern convergence in toxic pitohuis: Mullerian mimicry in birds? Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 268(1480), 1971–1976. doi:10.1098/rspb.2001.1717 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batrachotoxin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batrachotoxin [2] Dumbacher, J., Beehler, B., Spande, T., Garraffo, H., & Daly, J. (1992). Homobatrachotoxin in the genus Pitohui: chemical defense in birds? Science, 258(5083), 799–801. doi:10.1126/science.1439786
- Huludrawn 4y ago
  Thanks for the input and the additional information.