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The problem with socialism is that it kills individual initiative and individual liberty. This has been demonstrated in all attempts to implement it. Any syste

The problem with socialism is that it kills individual initiative and individual liberty. This has been demonstrated in all attempts to implement it. Any system that does not accept and positively use the fact that individuals do things for their own benefits and have a built-in, evolved, sense of fairness in the sense that they are sensitive to each individual benefiting in fair proportion of the contribution they made is doomed to fail.

rlili 4y ago
Point is, individual initiative and individual liberty don't matter when you don't have dignity, e.g. being homeless, drowning in debt, etc. In all socialist experiences, the standard of living of the lower class skyrocketed in comparison to the respective previous regimes. This is a measurable, material fact. In comparison, what you and most liberalist thinkers label as "fairness" is not only abstract but also disconnected from the current reality.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Claiming that capitalism should be thrown away because of a tiny minority of homeless people, while overall people are massively better off than socialist states could ever dream of, shows the absolute bankruptcy of socialist ideology that ran out of any reasonable arguments decades ago.
sharemywin 4y ago
This whole capitalism vs. socialism argument is ridiculous. Capitalism can't solve all problems, clearly. neither can socialism. so then you have to talk about what laws, regulations and taxes we should have. Not how many but what kind. Also, your worried about economic freedom and individual choice. Most billionaires now have unelected bureaucrats running charitable foundations. we've abdicated so much power and decision making to the billionaires that we don't much choice. I guess if count what toppings you want on your pizza there's plenty of choices. as long as you don't mind toxic chemicals in there...I'm looking at you skittles.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  I agree that the argument is ridiculous in 2023 as it has long been settled.

rlili 4y ago

Point is, individual initiative and individual liberty don't matter when you don't have dignity, e.g. being homeless, drowning in debt, etc. In all socialist experiences, the standard of living of the lower class skyrocketed in comparison to the respective previous regimes. This is a measurable, material fact. In comparison, what you and most liberalist thinkers label as "fairness" is not only abstract but also disconnected from the current reality.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Claiming that capitalism should be thrown away because of a tiny minority of homeless people, while overall people are massively better off than socialist states could ever dream of, shows the absolute bankruptcy of socialist ideology that ran out of any reasonable arguments decades ago.

sharemywin 4y ago

This whole capitalism vs. socialism argument is ridiculous. Capitalism can't solve all problems, clearly. neither can socialism. so then you have to talk about what laws, regulations and taxes we should have. Not how many but what kind. Also, your worried about economic freedom and individual choice. Most billionaires now have unelected bureaucrats running charitable foundations. we've abdicated so much power and decision making to the billionaires that we don't much choice. I guess if count what toppings you want on your pizza there's plenty of choices. as long as you don't mind toxic chemicals in there...I'm looking at you skittles.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
I agree that the argument is ridiculous in 2023 as it has long been settled.