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Electronics prices in the EU are simply crazy. Recently i wanted to get a small mini-PC that would be energy efficient and I could run some AI experiments on. R
by slowmotiony 4y ago
Electronics prices in the EU are simply crazy. Recently i wanted to get a small mini-PC that would be energy efficient and I could run some AI experiments on. Reading online forums, everyone's like "just get a mac mini, couple hundred bucks and you're golden". I check the apple website and turns out they actually cost almost a thousand euro for the 16GB/256GB model.
But its the same with a lot of other electronics too - people online will tell you something like "just get a raspberry for $40" but then you look at the European ebay and you're in for at least a 100 euro and that's for a used one.
- Eisenstein 4y agoRasbpis are expensive because people started using them for products (why make a board to flash these lights when I can put a cheap Pi in there with a program to do it?) and during the chip shortage they started prioritizing businesses -- which is against their self-described mission, but whatever. They still haven't caught up production enough to stifle the price increases.
- wkat4242 4y agoYeah they really caused some bad blood with this business prioritisation.. Not just with us in the community but also with Broadcom who now view them as competitors as opposed to a friendly outreach project. They should have stuck with their core IMO.
- enumjorge 4y agoI'm not very deep in the raspberry PI world, mostly because it's been hard getting a hold of one. Are there alternatives that the community has gravitated towards?
- Eisenstein 4y agoCheck out Pine64: * https://pine64.com/product-category/single-board-computers/ https://pine64.com/product-category/single-board-computers/ The Rock64 fits in a Pi3 case and is roughly equiv. and runs DietPi (makes a good Pihole). The RockPro64 is a great media machine. The A64 doesn't really do it for me but I am sure it has applications. My one big complaint about the Rock64 design is that the tiny barrel power plug (the same size and voltage used for USB powered hubs) is right next to the 3.5mm audio jack and fits inside and if you mistakenly put it in it will fry the board (ask me how I know). I have taken to popping the connector off shitty headphones and putting it in the audio jack so that can't happen.
- wkat4242 4y agoFor the original hobby niche of small electronic projects where a microcrontroller with wifi will suffice, the ESP8266 / ESP32 have been quickly overtaking the pi zero. Of course it's not really comparable and there is the Rpi Pico as a competitor but I find the ESP32 much easier to work with. It's also much cheaper (not to mention the 8266) For heavier usecases that really there isn't as much of an alternative. Many other boards like the pine64, beagle and orangepi, but their ecosystem lacks sophistication.
- detaro 4y ago$800 + tax (don't forget thats included in EU prices already) isn't exactly just "a couple hundred dollars" either. Stuff is more expensive, yes, sales tax is usually higher, but the example doesn't seem that extreme? Also depends a bit on how the exchange rate has wobbled right now. And the RPi prices are through the roof everywhere. "Just get a Pi, they are cheap" is basically a pre-2020 sentiment.
- dmix 4y agoIs it tariffs or something? Everything in Canada is usually 10-25% more expensive than the US, besides stuff covered under NAFTA. Consumer things like clothes/electronics are usually the biggest victims. But I just compared the Apple stores and the base Macbook = $999USD vs $1299CAD, doing pure currency conversion $1299CAD = $965.96USD, so it's technically ~$32USD cheaper in Canada? Probably just out-of-step with currency markets/inflation.
- axlee 4y agoSales tax is a lot higher in EU, so that accounts for 15-20% (at least) of the end consumer price difference.
- dukeyukey 4y agoAnd that sales tax (maybe other taxes too) aren't shown in US product displays, but they are basically everywhere else.
- layer8 4y agoIt’s mostly the Euro having weakened vis-à-vis the USD, plus some very minor components like private-copying levy. European prices are usually listed including sales tax, which can make them appear higher compared to the US list prices which don’t include tax.
- wkat4242 4y agoThe euro is above the dollar again so that point doesn't really fly anymore.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoPrice increases tend to be sticky.
- layer8 4y agoApple only adjusts the prices once per year per product, at most.
- raverbashing 4y agoThe 16/512 M2 model lists in the US website for $1300, not sure about the previous model but doesn't look the prices are that different
- fastaguy88 4y agoThey should have said: "Just get a used Mac Mini". You can literally get them from macsales.com for less than $100. The intel machines have not gotten much faster, but their prices have dropped dramatically.
- varispeed 4y agoYou can't. There is only 1 Mac Mini available with M1 CPU and it only has 8GB RAM - that's for $499 and if you add shipping to Europe and tax, probably it will work out closer to $1000 than $499.
- airstrike 4y agoAin't no way shipping and taxes equal 100% of the product's price
- slowmotiony 4y agoWhy? Shipping, VAT and all the customs fees will easily double the price of the product by the time it reaches your door.
- newaccount74 4y agoVAT is 15-20%, customs 5-10%, shipping ~50€, fees for custom handling 10-20€. It's pricy, but it's not going to double the price.
- microtonal 4y agoEven better - some countries have 0% import tax on computers (just VAT). I am not sure if this is an EU-wide regulation (I would expect so, because it is a single market), but in The Netherlands it's 0%.
- microtonal 4y agoI recently ordered a keyboard from Taiwan. I got charged the 21% VAT plus a few euro administration costs by the shipper. Mind you, I would have paid the same 21% VAT if I had purchased a similarly priced product in The Netherlands. So, you are down to shipping cost, many companies have different options. Sure, if you want something on your doorstep in 2-3 days, they are going to charge 80-90 USD/Euro shipping, that's simply what it costs.
- dbg31415 4y ago> Electronics prices in the EU are simply crazy. I remember being upset that the same laptop cost more in Australia than it did in the US, then I realized that it had a lot more to do with Australia's corporate tax rates. Turns out... companies do pass on taxes to the end purchasers. It feels, and I don't mean offense here, that if the EU wants to tell companies which power plugs they can use, and stay heavy-handed with corporate tax rates, that people in the EU will need to just accept higher prices as the outcome of their leaders' actions. Currency fluctuations, and corporate taxes explain all the price differences. Someone said "Oh it costs 7% more now than it did 2 years ago!" Gosh, compared to the rest of everything a price hike of only 7% seems like a really good deal over the last 3 years. =P (But I get we aren't used to tech prices ever going up over time.) No company is in the business of giving things away, y'know? Anyway Apple just wants a profit of $X per unit. If your country adds a bunch of rules and costs, that's fine it's your right to self-govern and set whatever laws you want, but Apple is still going to get a profit of $X per unit. Edit: Later today I'm picking up a laptop for a colleague who is coming in to town next week from an EU country. He wanted to buy it in the US since it was so much cheaper. Good timing on this post. (=
- geodel 4y agoExactly right. This assumption that physical goods can cost about same all across the world is hilarious. Tax policies, interest rates, inflation, exchange rates, local laws etc..etc cause so many things make items priced differently across geographies.
- Thaxll 4y agoIt's not just EU it's anything beside US. Canada / Australia UK don't get US prices either.
- reaperducer 4y agoElectronics prices in the EU are simply crazy This has been true for Europe for a long time. In the early 90's, I had a particular Sony Walkman that I was very fond of. I paid about US$100 for it. A couple of months later, I accidentally left it on the plane as I was transferring in Paris. When I got to Vienna, I was delighted to discover that it was also available there, so I bought a replacement. I was not delighted to find out that it cost nearly double what I paid for it in the U.S. There's something about Europe and electronics that always seems to equal higher prices. It's been going on for at least a half a century.
- microtonal 4y agoElectronics prices in the EU are simply crazy. I did these calculations a while back on various Mac models and the price difference was actually not that large. The US prices are without VAT. Add the 19 or 21% of VAT that is typical for EU countries and it's almost the same. The difference grew a bit, because the Euro became a bit stronger relative to the USD since Apple made their last announcements. mini-PC that would be energy efficient and I could run some AI experiments on Don't do that, an M2 has very limited compute. A cheap RTX2060 Super from some years back will be many many times faster when you use Tensor Cores.
- 908B64B197 4y ago> Add the 19 or 21% of VAT that is typical for EU countries and it's almost the same. These taxes seem punitive. For essential goods such as computers, that seems way too high.
- microtonal 4y agoSeems completely fair to me? A good computer lasts many years, the cost (outside Macs) has gone down a lot and you can get a second hand computer at very low prices. Also a lot of other tech-related costs are much lower here than compared to e.g. the US, like much more affordable broadband internet.