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"Back fifteen years ago IE held back the web because web developers had to cater to its outdated technology stack. “Best viewed with IE” and all that. But do yo

"Back fifteen years ago IE held back the web because web developers had to cater to its outdated technology stack. “Best viewed with IE” and all that. But do you ever see a “Best viewed with Safari” notice? No, you don’t. Another browser takes that special place in web developers’ hearts and minds." https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2021/08/breaking_the_we.html https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2021/08/breaking_th...

whywhywhywhy 4y ago
>“Best viewed with Safari” notice? I mean you know there was a period of time where Safari existed and Chrome didn't.
bioemerl 4y ago
"the new IE" can mean two different things. 1. IE6, a titanic that that wants to harm the web so they can push their own ecosystem instead. 2. IE11, the incompetent and rarely updated browser that you have to support because a segment of your userbase is stuck with it. This article tries to argue 1 isn't the case, but I have to disagree. Safari isn't as large as IE6, but it regardless tries to fill the same role. Ensuring apple gets their app store cut. 2 is also the case, but that needs less argument.
- illiarian 4y ago
  > IE6, a titanic that that wants to harm the web so they can push their own ecosystem instead. What a retcon. > This article tries to argue 1 isn't the case, but I have to disagree. Safari isn't as large as IE6, but it regardless tries to fill the same role. Of course it doesn't > 2 is also the case, but that needs less argument. It needs as much argument, if not more.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    How is that a retcon? I believe Microsoft and IEs stagnation was to keep people using Microsoft software instead of the web. The primary reason for chrome being developed in the first place was to push the web into a place that stuff like Google maps, docs, and so on could exist at all. > It needs as much argument, if not more. Read this thread where people talk about their experiences developing for safari. Read any open source web libraries issue list. It will be immidiately apparent that safari is the odd man out who constantly has to be baby sat in order to work properly. The reason I said it needs less argument is that I assumed it would be immidiately apparent. Most people who do web dev come away with this impression.
    - illiarian 4y ago
      > The primary reason for chrome being developed in the first place was to push the web into a place that stuff like Google maps, docs, and so on could exist at all. Retcon again. > Read this thread where people talk about their experiences developing for safari. Read any open source web libraries issue list. It will be immidiately apparent that safari is the odd man out who constantly has to be baby sat in order to work properly. And then when you actually read what people are saying, it turns out they only develop on Chrome, couldn't be arsed to develop for or test on other browsers, and want Chrome-only non-standards delivered yesterday to every browser. To quote again, "But do you ever see a “Best viewed with Safari” notice? No, you don’t. Another browser takes that special place in web developers’ hearts and minds." > The reason I said it needs less argument is that I assumed it would be immidiately apparent. Most people who do web dev come away with this impression. I do web dev, and it is definitely not immediately apparent.
      - bioemerl 4y ago
        > Retcon again After IE6 achieved it's goal of destroying the competition, Microsoft literally disbanded the development team. Why would they do that for a very successful product? Because the web didn't have potential? Firefox started innovation back again a bit, but it took chrome and Google's want to applicationize the web to really kick us into gear. https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-history-1025602/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-history-10256... > A few days before Google Chrome launched, Google released a blog post titled “A fresh take on the browser.” The post explained that they were releasing this new browser because they believed they could “add value for users and, at the same time, help drive innovation on the web.” > Third, Google saw Chrome as more than just a browser by developing it with rich, interactive web applications in mind. Lastly, it offered tab “sandboxing,” which kept the entire browser from crashing when one website crashed. ... > And then when you actually read what people are saying, it turns out they only develop on Chrome, couldn't be arsed to develop for or test on other browser I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. And if you want to test Safari? You literally have to buy a dedicated piece of hardware for it. You wonder why it isn't tested? So here's a browser that fails to just work, even when you primarily use Firefox to build the page. You have to buy extra hardware to test on it. And you blame the developer?

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

>“Best viewed with Safari” notice? I mean you know there was a period of time where Safari existed and Chrome didn't.

bioemerl 4y ago

"the new IE" can mean two different things. 1. IE6, a titanic that that wants to harm the web so they can push their own ecosystem instead. 2. IE11, the incompetent and rarely updated browser that you have to support because a segment of your userbase is stuck with it. This article tries to argue 1 isn't the case, but I have to disagree. Safari isn't as large as IE6, but it regardless tries to fill the same role. Ensuring apple gets their app store cut. 2 is also the case, but that needs less argument.

illiarian 4y ago
> IE6, a titanic that that wants to harm the web so they can push their own ecosystem instead. What a retcon. > This article tries to argue 1 isn't the case, but I have to disagree. Safari isn't as large as IE6, but it regardless tries to fill the same role. Of course it doesn't > 2 is also the case, but that needs less argument. It needs as much argument, if not more.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  How is that a retcon? I believe Microsoft and IEs stagnation was to keep people using Microsoft software instead of the web. The primary reason for chrome being developed in the first place was to push the web into a place that stuff like Google maps, docs, and so on could exist at all. > It needs as much argument, if not more. Read this thread where people talk about their experiences developing for safari. Read any open source web libraries issue list. It will be immidiately apparent that safari is the odd man out who constantly has to be baby sat in order to work properly. The reason I said it needs less argument is that I assumed it would be immidiately apparent. Most people who do web dev come away with this impression.
  - illiarian 4y ago
    > The primary reason for chrome being developed in the first place was to push the web into a place that stuff like Google maps, docs, and so on could exist at all. Retcon again. > Read this thread where people talk about their experiences developing for safari. Read any open source web libraries issue list. It will be immidiately apparent that safari is the odd man out who constantly has to be baby sat in order to work properly. And then when you actually read what people are saying, it turns out they only develop on Chrome, couldn't be arsed to develop for or test on other browsers, and want Chrome-only non-standards delivered yesterday to every browser. To quote again, "But do you ever see a “Best viewed with Safari” notice? No, you don’t. Another browser takes that special place in web developers’ hearts and minds." > The reason I said it needs less argument is that I assumed it would be immidiately apparent. Most people who do web dev come away with this impression. I do web dev, and it is definitely not immediately apparent.
    - bioemerl 4y ago
      > Retcon again After IE6 achieved it's goal of destroying the competition, Microsoft literally disbanded the development team. Why would they do that for a very successful product? Because the web didn't have potential? Firefox started innovation back again a bit, but it took chrome and Google's want to applicationize the web to really kick us into gear. https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-history-1025602/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-history-10256... > A few days before Google Chrome launched, Google released a blog post titled “A fresh take on the browser.” The post explained that they were releasing this new browser because they believed they could “add value for users and, at the same time, help drive innovation on the web.” > Third, Google saw Chrome as more than just a browser by developing it with rich, interactive web applications in mind. Lastly, it offered tab “sandboxing,” which kept the entire browser from crashing when one website crashed. ... > And then when you actually read what people are saying, it turns out they only develop on Chrome, couldn't be arsed to develop for or test on other browser I develop for Firefox. Chrome basically always works fine with my pages. Safari chokes on all of them. And if you want to test Safari? You literally have to buy a dedicated piece of hardware for it. You wonder why it isn't tested? So here's a browser that fails to just work, even when you primarily use Firefox to build the page. You have to buy extra hardware to test on it. And you blame the developer?