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I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

sschueller 4y ago
I think it would be better if people would say that it is scripted as it is certainly a very physical activity requiring quite a bit of athleticism even if the hits may not be as hard as if they were "real". In fact I would compare wrestling to what stuntmen do. Scripted but very real in most ways.
- BjoernKW 4y ago
  > Scripted but very real in most ways. Different era, but back in the 90s, guys like Ric Flair or Mick Foley were almost superhuman in terms of stamina or the bumps they were able to take and still continue.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    It's been a while since I saw wrestling but I remember the Undertaker throwing Mick Foley off the top of I think a 12 foot high cage.
    - AndrewOMartin 4y ago
      Which surprised even the Undertaker at the time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS110ggmHIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS110ggmHIM
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Shane McMahon did a similarly-nuts fall from a cage a few Wrestlemanias ago.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
stanleydrew 4y ago
Isn't that because wrestling producers have tried to maintain the illusion that it's "real?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe
- techdragon 4y ago
  Without a doubt. This is the cause of the stream of people who feel the need to point out it's fake. They aren't "in on the joke" yet, or "don't get the joke", so of course they won't hesitate to point out the obvious, and it usually goes over for fans about as well as someone who feels compelled to explain a joke told by someone else does... Not a fan myself but I long ago wrapped my head around the Kayfabe and why it's silly to point out it's fake. Its just another sub type of "soap opera", like comic books, daytime soaps and telenovelas ...
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Soap opera's exactly the right comparison, especially the really long-running soaps. Same kind of weird surprises, reversals, storylines and callbacks and characters spanning literal decades, all that stuff. Shit, this last Wrestlemania featured a wrestler (who's the son of another wrestler) involved with a plot line elements of which date back to when he was six years old, and that kind of thing's somewhat common wrestling. Lots of the drama and conflicts and stories could easily be lifted and put in an actual soap opera with minimal modification. It's a soap opera with tons of crazy, live stunts.
- scarface74 4y ago
  No. McMahon admitted publicly that wrestling was fake in 1989 to avoid taxes. https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-vince-mcmahon-admitted-wrestling-scripted-to-avoid-taxes/ https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-vince-mcmahon-admitted-wres...
- gspencley 4y ago
  My wife and I are performing magicians and there is a surprising amount of overlap in the history of the two performance arts. Wrestling came from circus and sideshow. Stage magic has also had a large presence there, historically. Both art forms have a history of keeping their "methods" secret. It reminds me of the first Borat movie, where Sascha Baron Cohen - at the time relatively unknown outside of the UK - stayed in character during the promotion of the movie. People didn't know if this character was for real or if it was an actor playing a part. It was part of the "art" (I know it sounds weird to call Borat "art", I don't want to get into a pedantic argument about definitions ... let's just say that magic, film, pro wrestling ... all theatre). Ethically, it's an interesting grey area and I think that each has different reasons for being protective of what going on behind the scenes. Every magician has learned the hard way that audiences usually react to finding out how a trick is done with disappointment and that's the real reason that methods are kept guarded. The line for me is that I will never pretend that what I am doing when in character is anything other than parlour tricks and illusions. I think that pro wrestling and Kayfabe are similar. For a long time pro wrestling did want to protect the illusion. These days they are much more open about it being scripted and predetermined and, like magic, anyone that wants to learn how some of it is done can find out very easily online. But I think that they still don't want to advertise the techniques because, in their belief, it would ruin the suspension of disbelief. Magic is actually the UNWILLING suspension of disbelief. Even if a trick is not framed as an intellectual puzzle, it takes an intelligent audience to experience the illusion. The person watching must have a clear understanding of what is possible vs what is not, and the magician needs to understand every possible explanation that might run through a typical rational human mind and work to preemptively disprove those explanations. It's a fun implied intellectual challenge. I can find pro wrestling to be entertaining but I'm not a super-fan and so I don't know if the "unwilling suspension of disbelief" enters into the picture with Kayfabe at all .. but I can see how it can. If we were under the assumption that every move and stunt were without any risk then would it still be AS entertaining? The "moves" in pro wrestling do not eliminate risk but they definitely work to reduce it. And understanding the mechanics, like in magic, has the potential to break the illusion.
remote_phone 4y ago
I’ve loved wrestling ever since I was a kid as well. I thought it was real until my dad pointed out that the a first person introduced always lost. That’s shattered my innocence but I started enjoying it more as I grew older because I could enjoy it as a joke/performance. I watched it when it was called the WWF and stopped watching it just before it got renamed to the WWE so I’m less familiar with all the newer wrestlers from the last 20 years but I’ve seen the greats live, like Rick Flair. Being able to “woooooo!” with the entire arena was fun as hell even though we all know it wasn’t a real competitive event.
- jfoutz 4y ago
  I haven't watched pro wrestling since I was a kid. I happened to be at a hotel across the street from a show. The talent and crew were at the same hotel. I was at the bar after the show ended. Everybody was so nice. I was a little mystified about what was happening, but I finally put it together. Talent was very patient with fans, let pretty much everyone take pictures. Staff cared about fans, asking about their favorite part or listening to the odd complaint. Compared to say a kitchen crew getting off work and unwinding, the WWE folks were surprisingly wholesome. Everyone seemed nice and down to earth.

sschueller 4y ago

I think it would be better if people would say that it is scripted as it is certainly a very physical activity requiring quite a bit of athleticism even if the hits may not be as hard as if they were "real". In fact I would compare wrestling to what stuntmen do. Scripted but very real in most ways.

BjoernKW 4y ago
> Scripted but very real in most ways. Different era, but back in the 90s, guys like Ric Flair or Mick Foley were almost superhuman in terms of stamina or the bumps they were able to take and still continue.
- sschueller 4y ago
  It's been a while since I saw wrestling but I remember the Undertaker throwing Mick Foley off the top of I think a 12 foot high cage.
  - AndrewOMartin 4y ago
    Which surprised even the Undertaker at the time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS110ggmHIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS110ggmHIM
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Shane McMahon did a similarly-nuts fall from a cage a few Wrestlemanias ago.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

stanleydrew 4y ago

Isn't that because wrestling producers have tried to maintain the illusion that it's "real?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

techdragon 4y ago
Without a doubt. This is the cause of the stream of people who feel the need to point out it's fake. They aren't "in on the joke" yet, or "don't get the joke", so of course they won't hesitate to point out the obvious, and it usually goes over for fans about as well as someone who feels compelled to explain a joke told by someone else does... Not a fan myself but I long ago wrapped my head around the Kayfabe and why it's silly to point out it's fake. Its just another sub type of "soap opera", like comic books, daytime soaps and telenovelas ...
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Soap opera's exactly the right comparison, especially the really long-running soaps. Same kind of weird surprises, reversals, storylines and callbacks and characters spanning literal decades, all that stuff. Shit, this last Wrestlemania featured a wrestler (who's the son of another wrestler) involved with a plot line elements of which date back to when he was six years old, and that kind of thing's somewhat common wrestling. Lots of the drama and conflicts and stories could easily be lifted and put in an actual soap opera with minimal modification. It's a soap opera with tons of crazy, live stunts.
scarface74 4y ago
No. McMahon admitted publicly that wrestling was fake in 1989 to avoid taxes. https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-vince-mcmahon-admitted-wrestling-scripted-to-avoid-taxes/ https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-vince-mcmahon-admitted-wres...
gspencley 4y ago
My wife and I are performing magicians and there is a surprising amount of overlap in the history of the two performance arts. Wrestling came from circus and sideshow. Stage magic has also had a large presence there, historically. Both art forms have a history of keeping their "methods" secret. It reminds me of the first Borat movie, where Sascha Baron Cohen - at the time relatively unknown outside of the UK - stayed in character during the promotion of the movie. People didn't know if this character was for real or if it was an actor playing a part. It was part of the "art" (I know it sounds weird to call Borat "art", I don't want to get into a pedantic argument about definitions ... let's just say that magic, film, pro wrestling ... all theatre). Ethically, it's an interesting grey area and I think that each has different reasons for being protective of what going on behind the scenes. Every magician has learned the hard way that audiences usually react to finding out how a trick is done with disappointment and that's the real reason that methods are kept guarded. The line for me is that I will never pretend that what I am doing when in character is anything other than parlour tricks and illusions. I think that pro wrestling and Kayfabe are similar. For a long time pro wrestling did want to protect the illusion. These days they are much more open about it being scripted and predetermined and, like magic, anyone that wants to learn how some of it is done can find out very easily online. But I think that they still don't want to advertise the techniques because, in their belief, it would ruin the suspension of disbelief. Magic is actually the UNWILLING suspension of disbelief. Even if a trick is not framed as an intellectual puzzle, it takes an intelligent audience to experience the illusion. The person watching must have a clear understanding of what is possible vs what is not, and the magician needs to understand every possible explanation that might run through a typical rational human mind and work to preemptively disprove those explanations. It's a fun implied intellectual challenge. I can find pro wrestling to be entertaining but I'm not a super-fan and so I don't know if the "unwilling suspension of disbelief" enters into the picture with Kayfabe at all .. but I can see how it can. If we were under the assumption that every move and stunt were without any risk then would it still be AS entertaining? The "moves" in pro wrestling do not eliminate risk but they definitely work to reduce it. And understanding the mechanics, like in magic, has the potential to break the illusion.

remote_phone 4y ago

I’ve loved wrestling ever since I was a kid as well. I thought it was real until my dad pointed out that the a first person introduced always lost. That’s shattered my innocence but I started enjoying it more as I grew older because I could enjoy it as a joke/performance. I watched it when it was called the WWF and stopped watching it just before it got renamed to the WWE so I’m less familiar with all the newer wrestlers from the last 20 years but I’ve seen the greats live, like Rick Flair. Being able to “woooooo!” with the entire arena was fun as hell even though we all know it wasn’t a real competitive event.

jfoutz 4y ago
I haven't watched pro wrestling since I was a kid. I happened to be at a hotel across the street from a show. The talent and crew were at the same hotel. I was at the bar after the show ended. Everybody was so nice. I was a little mystified about what was happening, but I finally put it together. Talent was very patient with fans, let pretty much everyone take pictures. Staff cared about fans, asking about their favorite part or listening to the odd complaint. Compared to say a kitchen crew getting off work and unwinding, the WWE folks were surprisingly wholesome. Everyone seemed nice and down to earth.