5 ms·

I think the word "Lotus" on this is going to kill it dead before it even gets of the ground. There is almost universal hatred for that brand (other than from a

by bwarp 15y ago

I think the word "Lotus" on this is going to kill it dead before it even gets of the ground. There is almost universal hatred for that brand (other than from a few people who paid for it and don't have to use products from that division of IBM). It's literally like branding your new product with swastikas.

obtino 15y ago
I concur. Having been forced to use the Lotus email client during my life at IBM, the name 'Lotus' does not conjure up pleasant memories.
- bwarp 15y ago
  Small and disturbing flashback... I worked at an organisation which implemented Lotus Notes across everything. All I remember is EXCRUCIATING PAIN and armies of suited, gold decorated consultants who could barely get their own bodies into their expensive sports cars.
  - arethuza 15y ago
    For some reason I always used to find the login process to Notes really disturbing - the way you typed your password and for each key you pressed multiple hieroglyphics would appear. Of course, then there were all of the input controls - which seem to have been designed to behave like no other input controls before or since....
    - slig 15y ago
      I wonder the type of super-manager that came up with that hieroglyphic idea. And the programmer that implemented it sighing.
      - arethuza 15y ago
        Notes has an entire entry in the Interface Hall of Shame: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/lotus.htm http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/lotus.htm They have an animation of how the login worked. It's even worse than I remembered!
        omh 15y ago
        This feature is still present in the latest version. When I enter my password I get a window like the one here: http://depressedpress.com/2011/03/07/lotus-notes-tribunal-exhibit-001-b-login-screen-animation/ http://depressedpress.com/2011/03/07/lotus-notes-tribunal-ex... Really though, this is quite low down on any list of Notes UI issues. There's a whole can of worms there that's best left unopened.
      - r00fus 15y ago
        It's actually a pretty good implementation of preventing login dialog imposters. However, with the popularization of keyloggers (and signed binaries), that should have been sidelined as no longer needed. I'm guessing it was somehow related to some big business/government clients that require such a feature despite it's efficacy.
    - bwarp 15y ago
      I'd actually completely forgotten about those hieroglyphic things! That and the three stars appearing when you hit a key. That was greeted with a massive WTF.
      - jrabone 15y ago
        And yet ISTR that used to be security best practice, to avoid shoulder surfers from knowing how long your password was.
        bwarp 15y ago
        You just listen for keypresses. Trivial to defeat!
robmcm 15y ago
Yup, that's a black mark for sure. IBM's stock would rocket if they re-branded or killed of Lotus, it's over taken Real Player for my most despised brand of software.
- hello_moto 15y ago
  RealPlayer has its use: to download Flash video quickly via browser plugin :D
omh 15y ago
IBM is in the process of removing the Lotus brand from everything. This 'Greenhouse' is a test bed for the "Lotus" community and hasn't gone through the rebranding yet. I'm sure that when they release this properly it won't have the dreaded L-word anywhere near it. This has been a long-running saga within the IBM/Lotus community for years now. It's obviously a toxic brand, but it's taken them a while to start clearing it out. I think they're still working out how to brand the next version of Lotus Notes. (Yes, Lotus Notes is still widely used. Reluctant Notes/Domino admin here).
- bwarp 15y ago
  That's only because people are widely "stuck with it". I've not seen a single organisation in the last 10 years that has done a new deployment. It's always been hanging on by a thread, usually along with some Netware and occasionally DEC estate and some serious 10base2 mileage. "We'll fix it one day" etc.
  - omh 15y ago
    I looked at migrating when we did our last e-mail server upgrade, but the cost of moving to Exchange vs upgrading Notes just wasn't worth it. The latest version isn't so bad for general groupware type stuff. For a new deployment I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole though.
    - hello_moto 15y ago
      This is what I heard as well from consultants: moving from Notes to Exchange don't yield more benefit or safe money.
      - bwarp 15y ago
        I bet that was heard from Notes consultants...
        hello_moto 15y ago
mgkimsal 15y ago
random memory - one of my earlier jobs in my career was working with lotus notes to develop custom mods of some notes-based package we were reselling. On Windows 95. With 16megs of memory. I think I finagled a 32meg system eventually for some testing/dev, but everything then had to be vetted on the 16meg systems we were shipping out. What an insanely slow nightmare to work with that was. From all accounts, Notes had/has some interesting ideas re: doc management, but I could never see past the slowness to appreciate what, if anything, Notes was ever really good at.
ansgri 15y ago
Except in the latter case they would have their small niche of very loyal customers.
jkeel 15y ago
When I see the hatred people have for anything "Lotus" I'm both surprised and not surprised. Surprised because I didn't know so many people used a "Lotus" product like Notes. Then not surprised since I've used them and constantly curse at them. Even with this post I read the title and had a bit of hope for IBM, then saw the link to lotus.com and stopped to debate if I should even click on it.
moonchrome 15y ago
>It's literally like branding your new product with swastikas. Targeting a niche market ?

by bwarp 15y ago

obtino 15y ago

I concur. Having been forced to use the Lotus email client during my life at IBM, the name 'Lotus' does not conjure up pleasant memories.

bwarp 15y ago
Small and disturbing flashback... I worked at an organisation which implemented Lotus Notes across everything. All I remember is EXCRUCIATING PAIN and armies of suited, gold decorated consultants who could barely get their own bodies into their expensive sports cars.
- arethuza 15y ago
  For some reason I always used to find the login process to Notes really disturbing - the way you typed your password and for each key you pressed multiple hieroglyphics would appear. Of course, then there were all of the input controls - which seem to have been designed to behave like no other input controls before or since....
  - slig 15y ago
    I wonder the type of super-manager that came up with that hieroglyphic idea. And the programmer that implemented it sighing.
    - arethuza 15y ago
      Notes has an entire entry in the Interface Hall of Shame: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/lotus.htm http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/lotus.htm They have an animation of how the login worked. It's even worse than I remembered!
      - omh 15y ago
        This feature is still present in the latest version. When I enter my password I get a window like the one here: http://depressedpress.com/2011/03/07/lotus-notes-tribunal-exhibit-001-b-login-screen-animation/ http://depressedpress.com/2011/03/07/lotus-notes-tribunal-ex... Really though, this is quite low down on any list of Notes UI issues. There's a whole can of worms there that's best left unopened.
    - r00fus 15y ago
      It's actually a pretty good implementation of preventing login dialog imposters. However, with the popularization of keyloggers (and signed binaries), that should have been sidelined as no longer needed. I'm guessing it was somehow related to some big business/government clients that require such a feature despite it's efficacy.
  - bwarp 15y ago
    I'd actually completely forgotten about those hieroglyphic things! That and the three stars appearing when you hit a key. That was greeted with a massive WTF.
    - jrabone 15y ago
      And yet ISTR that used to be security best practice, to avoid shoulder surfers from knowing how long your password was.
      - bwarp 15y ago
        You just listen for keypresses. Trivial to defeat!

robmcm 15y ago

Yup, that's a black mark for sure. IBM's stock would rocket if they re-branded or killed of Lotus, it's over taken Real Player for my most despised brand of software.

hello_moto 15y ago
RealPlayer has its use: to download Flash video quickly via browser plugin :D

omh 15y ago

IBM is in the process of removing the Lotus brand from everything. This 'Greenhouse' is a test bed for the "Lotus" community and hasn't gone through the rebranding yet. I'm sure that when they release this properly it won't have the dreaded L-word anywhere near it. This has been a long-running saga within the IBM/Lotus community for years now. It's obviously a toxic brand, but it's taken them a while to start clearing it out. I think they're still working out how to brand the next version of Lotus Notes. (Yes, Lotus Notes is still widely used. Reluctant Notes/Domino admin here).

bwarp 15y ago
That's only because people are widely "stuck with it". I've not seen a single organisation in the last 10 years that has done a new deployment. It's always been hanging on by a thread, usually along with some Netware and occasionally DEC estate and some serious 10base2 mileage. "We'll fix it one day" etc.
- omh 15y ago
  I looked at migrating when we did our last e-mail server upgrade, but the cost of moving to Exchange vs upgrading Notes just wasn't worth it. The latest version isn't so bad for general groupware type stuff. For a new deployment I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole though.
  - hello_moto 15y ago
    This is what I heard as well from consultants: moving from Notes to Exchange don't yield more benefit or safe money.
    - bwarp 15y ago
      I bet that was heard from Notes consultants...
      - hello_moto 15y ago

mgkimsal 15y ago

random memory - one of my earlier jobs in my career was working with lotus notes to develop custom mods of some notes-based package we were reselling. On Windows 95. With 16megs of memory. I think I finagled a 32meg system eventually for some testing/dev, but everything then had to be vetted on the 16meg systems we were shipping out. What an insanely slow nightmare to work with that was. From all accounts, Notes had/has some interesting ideas re: doc management, but I could never see past the slowness to appreciate what, if anything, Notes was ever really good at.

ansgri 15y ago

Except in the latter case they would have their small niche of very loyal customers.

jkeel 15y ago

When I see the hatred people have for anything "Lotus" I'm both surprised and not surprised. Surprised because I didn't know so many people used a "Lotus" product like Notes. Then not surprised since I've used them and constantly curse at them. Even with this post I read the title and had a bit of hope for IBM, then saw the link to lotus.com and stopped to debate if I should even click on it.

moonchrome 15y ago

>It's literally like branding your new product with swastikas. Targeting a niche market ?