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These bug reports are very poor, with apparently no effort to zoom in on the underlying issue, but the WebKit team took application-specific problems like “can’

These bug reports are very poor, with apparently no effort to zoom in on the underlying issue, but the WebKit team took application-specific problems like “can’t open project”, “the app gets stuck in the loading screen”, dug in and fixed them in days time. This is stellar support for a single company or product, props to the Safari team for that. I do agree releasing a broken implementation is bad, not clear what happened there. Aren’t Safari releases held back until a TP is free of critical issues? Was this not marked as critical due to being reported as an app issue instead of a Compression Streams or Service Workers incompatibility / regression?

saagarjha 4y ago
> Aren’t Safari releases held back until a TP is free of critical issues? No. Safari releases ship in lockstep with iOS releases.
- ilikehurdles 4y ago
  Not so on MacOS.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    It is so on macOS. In fact, macOS updates now ship in lockstep with iOS releases. This is because they all share code, and more importantly, security vulnerability fixes. You might be referring to how Safari is updated independently of macOS on the 2 non-latest versions of macOS. But those are still released simultaneously with the OS updates, and Safari on the latest version of macOS is bundled with the OS update.
    - ilikehurdles 4y ago
      I think I might be referring to that? Mainly referring to the separate “Other Updates” section of downloads, but I didn’t know those are still tied to OS updates for Safari.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        See for example how there's a Safari 16.4 update for Big Sur and Monterey but not for Ventura. That's because the macOS Ventura 13.3 update includes the latest Safari, just like the iOS 16.4 update includes the latest Safari. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 The separate Safari updates are only for back support of older macOS versions.
        illiarian 4y ago
        I've seen updates just for Safari, but those are irregular.
lucideer 4y ago
This exactly. Given the diligence of the Safari team - especially in the face of the extremely lazy first bug report - it's kinda wild that this person thought it appropriate to post such a negative angle. The second bug report wasn't even a bug: Chrome & Safari had implemented an unspecified part of the spec. differently to each other (specifically the implementation behind generating client IDs for fetch events in web workers -vs- the main window). The op is relying on an unspecified implementation detail for their app to work. Yet the Safari team actively treat it as a bug in an attempt to be more generally compatible with Chrome. My takeaway from actually reading through the content of the post is that the Safari devs are responsive and approachable, even even the bug reporter is lazy. Which is more than can be said of many other browsers projects.
- AshleysBrain 4y ago
  I credited the Apple developers with doing a good job in the blog. The problem is Apple's policies end up turning a routine bug fix in to a total nightmare.
  - turnsout 4y ago
    I think the larger issue is that you're relying on new or exotic browser APIs without enough skepticism about their behavior across a range of platforms. CompressionStream is brand new in 16.4, so zip.js should absolutely NOT assume it's available, and if it does detect the API, it should gracefully fall back to the older implementation if it encounters errors. I realize this is not your issue, but a dependency—but it could be a reason to use a library with a less aggressive upgrade philosophy, such as Pako.
    - gildas 4y ago
      Author of zip.js here, the CompressionStream API is available for 3 years in Chromium-based browsers [1]. That's why I integrated it 6 months ago in zip.js. However zip.js can detect if the API is present or not, and can work if not available (e.g. in Firefox). It cannot detect implementation bugs in the API though. Note that there's also an option to disable the use of the API [2]. [1] https://caniuse.com/?search=CompressionStream https://caniuse.com/?search=CompressionStream [2] https://gildas-lormeau.github.io/zip.js/api/interfaces/Configuration.html#useCompressionStream https://gildas-lormeau.github.io/zip.js/api/interfaces/Confi...
sccxy 4y ago
It is very hard to properly debug iOS bugs also. "a problem repeatedly occurred" and page crashes all the time. Only in Safari iOS 16. Worked in iOS 15. Works even in IE. What kind of bug report can you make out of it?
- mh- 4y ago
  Attaching Safari Dev Tools from a Mac to the iOS device should surface those errors, in my experience.
  - MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
    This experience is wonderful in my opinion. It’s difficult to discover: you have to check Safari Settings > Advanced on your phone to enable it.
  - theodorejb 4y ago
    What if you don't have a Mac?
    - vxNsr 4y ago
      I was gonna say then how are you developing for iOS, but this is a website, so you’re right, it’s kinda ridiculous. OTOH if you’re a large enough website you should be testing on every platform.
      - sccxy 4y ago
        Same should said to Apple. They release new API but they "forgot" to test when website is added to home screen (PWA). New API passes feature detection but does not work in PWA. iOS and macOS Safari have different bugs also... So you have to sniff user agent and other things to find out broken iOS versions and hardcode workarounds...
    - olyjohn 4y ago
      "Fuck you, buy a Mac." -Apple.

saagarjha 4y ago

> Aren’t Safari releases held back until a TP is free of critical issues? No. Safari releases ship in lockstep with iOS releases.

ilikehurdles 4y ago
Not so on MacOS.
- lapcat 4y ago
  It is so on macOS. In fact, macOS updates now ship in lockstep with iOS releases. This is because they all share code, and more importantly, security vulnerability fixes. You might be referring to how Safari is updated independently of macOS on the 2 non-latest versions of macOS. But those are still released simultaneously with the OS updates, and Safari on the latest version of macOS is bundled with the OS update.
  - ilikehurdles 4y ago
    I think I might be referring to that? Mainly referring to the separate “Other Updates” section of downloads, but I didn’t know those are still tied to OS updates for Safari.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      See for example how there's a Safari 16.4 update for Big Sur and Monterey but not for Ventura. That's because the macOS Ventura 13.3 update includes the latest Safari, just like the iOS 16.4 update includes the latest Safari. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 The separate Safari updates are only for back support of older macOS versions.
      - illiarian 4y ago
        I've seen updates just for Safari, but those are irregular.

lucideer 4y ago

This exactly. Given the diligence of the Safari team - especially in the face of the extremely lazy first bug report - it's kinda wild that this person thought it appropriate to post such a negative angle. The second bug report wasn't even a bug: Chrome & Safari had implemented an unspecified part of the spec. differently to each other (specifically the implementation behind generating client IDs for fetch events in web workers -vs- the main window). The op is relying on an unspecified implementation detail for their app to work. Yet the Safari team actively treat it as a bug in an attempt to be more generally compatible with Chrome. My takeaway from actually reading through the content of the post is that the Safari devs are responsive and approachable, even even the bug reporter is lazy. Which is more than can be said of many other browsers projects.

AshleysBrain 4y ago
I credited the Apple developers with doing a good job in the blog. The problem is Apple's policies end up turning a routine bug fix in to a total nightmare.
- turnsout 4y ago
  I think the larger issue is that you're relying on new or exotic browser APIs without enough skepticism about their behavior across a range of platforms. CompressionStream is brand new in 16.4, so zip.js should absolutely NOT assume it's available, and if it does detect the API, it should gracefully fall back to the older implementation if it encounters errors. I realize this is not your issue, but a dependency—but it could be a reason to use a library with a less aggressive upgrade philosophy, such as Pako.
  - gildas 4y ago
    Author of zip.js here, the CompressionStream API is available for 3 years in Chromium-based browsers [1]. That's why I integrated it 6 months ago in zip.js. However zip.js can detect if the API is present or not, and can work if not available (e.g. in Firefox). It cannot detect implementation bugs in the API though. Note that there's also an option to disable the use of the API [2]. [1] https://caniuse.com/?search=CompressionStream https://caniuse.com/?search=CompressionStream [2] https://gildas-lormeau.github.io/zip.js/api/interfaces/Configuration.html#useCompressionStream https://gildas-lormeau.github.io/zip.js/api/interfaces/Confi...

sccxy 4y ago

It is very hard to properly debug iOS bugs also. "a problem repeatedly occurred" and page crashes all the time. Only in Safari iOS 16. Worked in iOS 15. Works even in IE. What kind of bug report can you make out of it?

mh- 4y ago
Attaching Safari Dev Tools from a Mac to the iOS device should surface those errors, in my experience.
- MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
  This experience is wonderful in my opinion. It’s difficult to discover: you have to check Safari Settings > Advanced on your phone to enable it.
- theodorejb 4y ago
  What if you don't have a Mac?
  - vxNsr 4y ago
    I was gonna say then how are you developing for iOS, but this is a website, so you’re right, it’s kinda ridiculous. OTOH if you’re a large enough website you should be testing on every platform.
    - sccxy 4y ago
      Same should said to Apple. They release new API but they "forgot" to test when website is added to home screen (PWA). New API passes feature detection but does not work in PWA. iOS and macOS Safari have different bugs also... So you have to sniff user agent and other things to find out broken iOS versions and hardcode workarounds...
  - olyjohn 4y ago
    "Fuck you, buy a Mac." -Apple.