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Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. If possible

by z3t4 4y ago

Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. If possible you should have automatic tests that you can run automatically in several browsers. Some browser need to be the first one to implement new functionality, before there is a specification! Then the specification comes and often it's different then the already implemented API. You should not complain about new features, and you should not complain when browsers follow specifications. Instead you should have tests, and encourage users to report problems. Most browsers have a beta/review release, you can run your test on that, once per day, automatically. Use a program that automate mouse movements and clicks, for example Puppeteer for automating Chrome. (tip: also do performance test while you are at it, so you will know which changes affect performance)

whywhywhywhy 4y ago
> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work Please go and meet some of your users in person and watch them use a computer/phone. Your eyes will be opened to a world you never knew existed.
rippercushions 4y ago
> Most browsers have a beta/review release, you can run your test on that, once per day, automatically. A large part of the post's complaint is that not only does Safari not have a nightly build, but they don't even give advance notice of when their "technology preview" (beta) or stable releases are coming. Chrome, by contrast, not only has a public schedule, but a public dashboard where you can follow along. https://developer.chrome.com/blog/early-stable/ https://developer.chrome.com/blog/early-stable/ https://chromiumdash.appspot.com/schedule https://chromiumdash.appspot.com/schedule
- Y-bar 4y ago
  I thought there were nightly (or at least daily) builds? At least it looks that way in the WebKit archive where the three latest builds right now are: 262503@main April 3, 2023 at 01:23 PM GMT+2 262502@main April 3, 2023 at 10:51 AM GMT+2 262501@main April 3, 2023 at 10:17 AM GMT+2 https://webkit.org/build-archives/#mac-ventura-x86_64%20arm64 https://webkit.org/build-archives/#mac-ventura-x86_64%20arm6...
ducknalddon 4y ago
>Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. I don't. If your web site doesn't support Safari then I will take my business elsewhere.
theodorejb 4y ago
> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. Unfortunately iOS users don't have this option.
luckylion 4y ago
> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. Is there any statistic to back that up that safari users first blame their browser and switch to a different one before they give up on a site? And why are they still using safari in the first place if it happens so frequently that they made a habit out of switching browsers? I'm not convinced.
sccxy 4y ago
> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. HAHAHA. Are you not aware that every browser in iOS is basically wrapper for Safari? New bugs in Safari will break other browsers also.
hk1337 4y ago
> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. I haven't found that to be entirely true. Users will definitely have multiple browsers installed but that's usually because someone in their IT department had them install a second browser for testing. Most users will use one browser the entire time and need someone to tell them to try it in another browser if it's not working.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  This is also my experience, but people do tend to migrate to a different browser entirely if their workflows don't work in the other browser. If every website works in Chrome and most websites work in IE, users will switch to Chrome. Same with Safari. If the thing you're building is interesting enough for users to return to it, the unsupported browser may just stop getting used all together, especially if multiple sites break at the same time (i.e. when Safari broke WebAssembly support).
realusername 4y ago
> Most browsers have a beta/review release, you can run your test on that, once per day, automatically. Okay, how do I run headless Safari in a CI exactly? And how do I run Safari mobile in a CI since it has different bugs than the other one sometimes? I'm sure some people hacked some stuff together with ducktape but you are far far outside the supported development cycle of this software.
bioemerl 4y ago
> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. Apple literally goes out of their way to deny you the right to use another browser engine on their mobile phones.

by z3t4 4y ago

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work Please go and meet some of your users in person and watch them use a computer/phone. Your eyes will be opened to a world you never knew existed.

rippercushions 4y ago

> Most browsers have a beta/review release, you can run your test on that, once per day, automatically. A large part of the post's complaint is that not only does Safari not have a nightly build, but they don't even give advance notice of when their "technology preview" (beta) or stable releases are coming. Chrome, by contrast, not only has a public schedule, but a public dashboard where you can follow along. https://developer.chrome.com/blog/early-stable/ https://developer.chrome.com/blog/early-stable/ https://chromiumdash.appspot.com/schedule https://chromiumdash.appspot.com/schedule

Y-bar 4y ago
I thought there were nightly (or at least daily) builds? At least it looks that way in the WebKit archive where the three latest builds right now are: 262503@main April 3, 2023 at 01:23 PM GMT+2 262502@main April 3, 2023 at 10:51 AM GMT+2 262501@main April 3, 2023 at 10:17 AM GMT+2 https://webkit.org/build-archives/#mac-ventura-x86_64%20arm64 https://webkit.org/build-archives/#mac-ventura-x86_64%20arm6...

ducknalddon 4y ago

>Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. I don't. If your web site doesn't support Safari then I will take my business elsewhere.

theodorejb 4y ago

> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. Unfortunately iOS users don't have this option.

luckylion 4y ago

> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. Is there any statistic to back that up that safari users first blame their browser and switch to a different one before they give up on a site? And why are they still using safari in the first place if it happens so frequently that they made a habit out of switching browsers? I'm not convinced.

sccxy 4y ago

> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. HAHAHA. Are you not aware that every browser in iOS is basically wrapper for Safari? New bugs in Safari will break other browsers also.

hk1337 4y ago

> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. And they will just switch browser if something doesn't work, they are used to it. I haven't found that to be entirely true. Users will definitely have multiple browsers installed but that's usually because someone in their IT department had them install a second browser for testing. Most users will use one browser the entire time and need someone to tell them to try it in another browser if it's not working.

jeroenhd 4y ago
This is also my experience, but people do tend to migrate to a different browser entirely if their workflows don't work in the other browser. If every website works in Chrome and most websites work in IE, users will switch to Chrome. Same with Safari. If the thing you're building is interesting enough for users to return to it, the unsupported browser may just stop getting used all together, especially if multiple sites break at the same time (i.e. when Safari broke WebAssembly support).

realusername 4y ago

> Most browsers have a beta/review release, you can run your test on that, once per day, automatically. Okay, how do I run headless Safari in a CI exactly? And how do I run Safari mobile in a CI since it has different bugs than the other one sometimes? I'm sure some people hacked some stuff together with ducktape but you are far far outside the supported development cycle of this software.

bioemerl 4y ago

> Most users will have other browsers installed along with Safari. Apple literally goes out of their way to deny you the right to use another browser engine on their mobile phones.