5 ms·

It will not be the end of the war, but the West, and especially Europe, will have an aggressive bully at its borders who already proved it can murder and tortur

It will not be the end of the war, but the West, and especially Europe, will have an aggressive bully at its borders who already proved it can murder and torture people ruthlessly. So the economy will focus on arms race once again until someone in Russia finally understands it doesn't make any sense.

medo-bear 4y ago
that agressive bully was much further west 30+ years ago and western europe managed fine then
- viraptor 4y ago
  Not very aggressive in practice at that time. And the eastern Europe did not manage very well, which western Europe paid for for quite a long time.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Most of that aggression was targeted at Eastern Europe, such as putting down uprisings in Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Which is, go figure, why Poland, the Baltics, the Czechs, etc. are so eager to support Ukraine...
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      it is not that clear cut. neither hungarians nor the czechs are very eager to support ukraine. same as eastern germans https://apnews.com/article/czech-ukraine-russia-government-protest-8a92e5e0163c17cbc75a55f5c65b52fe https://apnews.com/article/czech-ukraine-russia-government-p...
      - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
        It is very clear cut. All Eastern European countries support Ukraine. In Czechia (and I believe in Slovakia) there are some groups convinced that if their countries stop support Ukraine, somehow miraculously peace will manifest. Moreover, millions of Ukrainians fled the war - it's a miracle there weren't any mass backlashes or provocations yet given the number of people that relocated and lives on foreign soil. But Ukraine has enormous support in the whole East Europe because these folks know they're next in line - they can even hear such threats from Russian TV and some politicians.
        medo-bear 4y ago
        okay if you say so
- mcv 4y ago
  > that agressive bully was much further west 30+ years ago And Putin wants all of that back. > western europe managed fine then But eastern Europe didn't manage fine, and they're the ones now pushing western Europe into putting more effort into stopping Putin. Western Europe mostly just wants to trade with Putin. This is most visible in Germany of course (technically central Europe, but the old east-west divide is suddenly relevant again), but also France. They've been slow to accept that Putin is not really a trade partner but an aggressor. They ignored it when Putin destroyed Chechnya. They ignored it when he took chunks out of Georgie. They ignored it when Putin took Crimea. Only when he tried to take Donbass did they finally start to see there might be a problem. Meanwhile Poland and the Baltics have been pointing out that Putin is a threat for two decades now. They were undeniably right to join NATO.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - mcv 4y ago
      Only Putin wants this war. US, UK, Poland, the Baltics and many other countries want to defend Europe against Russia. Nobody outside Russia would complain if Putin suddenly quit his war and withdrew from Ukraine.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        us certainly profited nicely from this conflict. i also doubt anyone would complain if us suddenly stopped invading and bombing
        mcv 4y ago
        How? So far, it's just costing everybody, including the US, a lot of money. What profit is there for the US in having Russia destroy entire Ukrainian cities? If Putin thought the US profited too much from this while his own country suffered, maybe he'd stop his war. But his narrative is that the US and the entire West is suffering just as much as Russia and they'll soon give up, so victory is within sight. It's not of course; it's just bullshit to let him prolong his war for just a bit longer.

medo-bear 4y ago

that agressive bully was much further west 30+ years ago and western europe managed fine then

viraptor 4y ago
Not very aggressive in practice at that time. And the eastern Europe did not manage very well, which western Europe paid for for quite a long time.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Most of that aggression was targeted at Eastern Europe, such as putting down uprisings in Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Which is, go figure, why Poland, the Baltics, the Czechs, etc. are so eager to support Ukraine...
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    it is not that clear cut. neither hungarians nor the czechs are very eager to support ukraine. same as eastern germans https://apnews.com/article/czech-ukraine-russia-government-protest-8a92e5e0163c17cbc75a55f5c65b52fe https://apnews.com/article/czech-ukraine-russia-government-p...
    - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
      It is very clear cut. All Eastern European countries support Ukraine. In Czechia (and I believe in Slovakia) there are some groups convinced that if their countries stop support Ukraine, somehow miraculously peace will manifest. Moreover, millions of Ukrainians fled the war - it's a miracle there weren't any mass backlashes or provocations yet given the number of people that relocated and lives on foreign soil. But Ukraine has enormous support in the whole East Europe because these folks know they're next in line - they can even hear such threats from Russian TV and some politicians.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        okay if you say so
mcv 4y ago
> that agressive bully was much further west 30+ years ago And Putin wants all of that back. > western europe managed fine then But eastern Europe didn't manage fine, and they're the ones now pushing western Europe into putting more effort into stopping Putin. Western Europe mostly just wants to trade with Putin. This is most visible in Germany of course (technically central Europe, but the old east-west divide is suddenly relevant again), but also France. They've been slow to accept that Putin is not really a trade partner but an aggressor. They ignored it when Putin destroyed Chechnya. They ignored it when he took chunks out of Georgie. They ignored it when Putin took Crimea. Only when he tried to take Donbass did they finally start to see there might be a problem. Meanwhile Poland and the Baltics have been pointing out that Putin is a threat for two decades now. They were undeniably right to join NATO.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - mcv 4y ago
    Only Putin wants this war. US, UK, Poland, the Baltics and many other countries want to defend Europe against Russia. Nobody outside Russia would complain if Putin suddenly quit his war and withdrew from Ukraine.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      us certainly profited nicely from this conflict. i also doubt anyone would complain if us suddenly stopped invading and bombing
      - mcv 4y ago
        How? So far, it's just costing everybody, including the US, a lot of money. What profit is there for the US in having Russia destroy entire Ukrainian cities? If Putin thought the US profited too much from this while his own country suffered, maybe he'd stop his war. But his narrative is that the US and the entire West is suffering just as much as Russia and they'll soon give up, so victory is within sight. It's not of course; it's just bullshit to let him prolong his war for just a bit longer.