6 ms·

Well, some of us don't want to be tracked, don't want to be tracked and don't want to be tracked. Given your stated preferences, are you actually looking for a

Well, some of us don't want to be tracked, don't want to be tracked and don't want to be tracked. Given your stated preferences, are you actually looking for a privacy-focused browser?

ramraj07 4y ago
Some people just want everything, no compromises.
- _puk 4y ago
  But isn't this what Firefox containers achieve? My understanding is that cookies etc aren't shared between containers, so I can stay logged in, and not be tracked across websites. If it's achievable, why compromise?
  - noahmasur 4y ago
    Your browser can still be fingerprinted without cookies. The site just needs enough unique information (user agent, timezone, screen size, IP, operating system, country, etc.) to form a trackable identity.
    - jwestbury 4y ago
      > IP This is a surprisingly effective one when combined with other users of your network. A couple of years ago, I started getting Facebook ads for things I'd never looked at, but that I knew my wife had looked at. We don't share any devices, and she doesn't even have a Facebook account. It's pretty troubling how invasive shadow profiles are.
  - hiccuphippo 4y ago
    What I'd like is a Mullvad container in regular Firefox so I can choose what sites to open in it, or rather make it the default and move a site to another container if I want permanent cookies. I use temporary containers now but the extra fingerprinting features appeal to me.
    - SadTrombone 4y ago
      You could look into Mozilla's VPN offering, it does what you want and is powered by Mullvad.
      - lxgr 4y ago
        It’s a neat feature, but beware: Per-container VPN reveals your real IP if you‘re also using uBlock in the default configuration at the moment due to a limitation in Firefox: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Settings#uncloak-canonical-names https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Settings#u...
- overthrow 4y ago
  That's not very charitable. Some people just want to pick a different point on the tradeoff between convenience and privacy. Imagine User A uses Fastmail every day, logging in manually every morning. User B uses Fastmail every day, with a saved login cookie. How is User B's privacy any worse? What would User B gain from not having that choice?
  - hitekker 4y ago
    The GP said "some people" not everyone. Some people want all the convenience and the illusion of privacy; the benefits minus the cost. It's human nature to want something without paying for it, just as it is human nature to pretend that desire doesn't exist
  - teawrecks 4y ago
    It's not a matter of user choice, it's a matter of maintenance and product integrity. User B's privacy is objectively lessened by allowing tracking cookies, but that is their choice. What is out of the user's control is what mullvad chooses to spend their time supporting. If mullvad allows users to turn off a privacy feature, now that's a permutation they have to test for. It's also an attack vector they've enabled, either through user carelessness or social engineering. Mullvad wants to be able to say "here's a browser, it's 100% private" and not have to say "as long as you do X, and don't do Y, and...". Every other browser already does that.
    - ta1243 4y ago
      If someone is logging into fastmail every day how does preventing this from being remembered help?
      - jchmrt 4y ago
        A possible scenadio might be that one day the user wants to log in to their other fastmail account, which they don't want to be linked to their main one in any way.
wkat4242 4y ago
It should be possible to make exceptions for sites you trust IMO.
- heartbreak 4y ago
  It is. You open those sites in Firefox.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    What if I don‘t want the memory and disk storage overhead of running two browsers? Being able to easily reopen a tab in a different "identity" is also a pretty neat feature.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  You can have more than one browser installed. I have some specific use cases between Brave and Firefox. Choose the right tool for the job.
deltree7 4y ago
Most of us are self-aware that I'm not that important to be specifically targeted. At the end of the day, where there is attention, there will be ads. All you are fighting for should they show you relevant ads or irrelevant ads. People who live a privileged life and have nothing else important going on in their life choose this hill to die on.
- chaxor 4y ago
  You're clearly not thinking enough about this. It's not just about ads. For just one example, think about the data acquired regarding fertility and abortion, and how it can be used with respect to some law alterations. There are many other examples for present and potential futures, so no this isn't just about ads.
- detrites 4y ago
  There are 200 countries on this earth, and not all of them have the luxury of an uncorrupt, actually-democratic set of genuine public servants who wish only to create utmost benefit for the largest number of people. If you have that, you're a minority. And if you believe you have that, but actually you don't, you'll find out only after it's too late to save it. It's prudent instead to assume and act like you don't have it in either case. Indeed, some of the greatest democracies have been set up precisely to that end. For many, online privacy isn't at all about advertising. It's about working to a common good of rights and freedom for all. Rest on your laurels all you like, but don't deride others who refuse to. It is only through the efforts of such people, and in the past those like them, that any of us have the ability to take any such rest at all.
- beardog 4y ago
  > Most of us are self-aware that I'm not that important to be specifically targeted. Of course, not in the sense that the FBI, Wagner Group, or the boogy man are going after you today (but you never know what the future holds) - however data brokers and large companies have a financial incentive right now to know as much about everyone as possible and the information they collect is increasingly being used to decide your insurance rates, give you employment, etc. >People who live a privileged life and have nothing else important going on in their life choose this hill to die on. I mostly agree, however privacy issues impact the less privileged more, for example women seeking abortions in unfriendly states, teenagers learning about queer issues in a toxic community/family, people fleeing abusive relationships (the effort some stalkers do is truly insanity), minority groups (e.g. undocumented immigrants). Sure these groups can't dedicate lots of mental energy to privacy but plug and play browsers like this one make it easier and even if you are highly privileged protecting your privacy makes it more acceptable for others to do so too.

Well, some of us don't want to be tracked, don't want to be tracked and don't want to be tracked. Given your stated preferences, are you actually looking for a privacy-focused browser?

ramraj07 4y ago

Some people just want everything, no compromises.

_puk 4y ago
But isn't this what Firefox containers achieve? My understanding is that cookies etc aren't shared between containers, so I can stay logged in, and not be tracked across websites. If it's achievable, why compromise?
- noahmasur 4y ago
  Your browser can still be fingerprinted without cookies. The site just needs enough unique information (user agent, timezone, screen size, IP, operating system, country, etc.) to form a trackable identity.
  - jwestbury 4y ago
    > IP This is a surprisingly effective one when combined with other users of your network. A couple of years ago, I started getting Facebook ads for things I'd never looked at, but that I knew my wife had looked at. We don't share any devices, and she doesn't even have a Facebook account. It's pretty troubling how invasive shadow profiles are.
- hiccuphippo 4y ago
  What I'd like is a Mullvad container in regular Firefox so I can choose what sites to open in it, or rather make it the default and move a site to another container if I want permanent cookies. I use temporary containers now but the extra fingerprinting features appeal to me.
  - SadTrombone 4y ago
    You could look into Mozilla's VPN offering, it does what you want and is powered by Mullvad.
    - lxgr 4y ago
      It’s a neat feature, but beware: Per-container VPN reveals your real IP if you‘re also using uBlock in the default configuration at the moment due to a limitation in Firefox: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Settings#uncloak-canonical-names https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Settings#u...
overthrow 4y ago
That's not very charitable. Some people just want to pick a different point on the tradeoff between convenience and privacy. Imagine User A uses Fastmail every day, logging in manually every morning. User B uses Fastmail every day, with a saved login cookie. How is User B's privacy any worse? What would User B gain from not having that choice?
- hitekker 4y ago
  The GP said "some people" not everyone. Some people want all the convenience and the illusion of privacy; the benefits minus the cost. It's human nature to want something without paying for it, just as it is human nature to pretend that desire doesn't exist
- teawrecks 4y ago
  It's not a matter of user choice, it's a matter of maintenance and product integrity. User B's privacy is objectively lessened by allowing tracking cookies, but that is their choice. What is out of the user's control is what mullvad chooses to spend their time supporting. If mullvad allows users to turn off a privacy feature, now that's a permutation they have to test for. It's also an attack vector they've enabled, either through user carelessness or social engineering. Mullvad wants to be able to say "here's a browser, it's 100% private" and not have to say "as long as you do X, and don't do Y, and...". Every other browser already does that.
  - ta1243 4y ago
    If someone is logging into fastmail every day how does preventing this from being remembered help?
    - jchmrt 4y ago
      A possible scenadio might be that one day the user wants to log in to their other fastmail account, which they don't want to be linked to their main one in any way.

wkat4242 4y ago

It should be possible to make exceptions for sites you trust IMO.

heartbreak 4y ago
It is. You open those sites in Firefox.
- lxgr 4y ago
  What if I don‘t want the memory and disk storage overhead of running two browsers? Being able to easily reopen a tab in a different "identity" is also a pretty neat feature.
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
You can have more than one browser installed. I have some specific use cases between Brave and Firefox. Choose the right tool for the job.

deltree7 4y ago

Most of us are self-aware that I'm not that important to be specifically targeted. At the end of the day, where there is attention, there will be ads. All you are fighting for should they show you relevant ads or irrelevant ads. People who live a privileged life and have nothing else important going on in their life choose this hill to die on.

chaxor 4y ago
You're clearly not thinking enough about this. It's not just about ads. For just one example, think about the data acquired regarding fertility and abortion, and how it can be used with respect to some law alterations. There are many other examples for present and potential futures, so no this isn't just about ads.
detrites 4y ago
There are 200 countries on this earth, and not all of them have the luxury of an uncorrupt, actually-democratic set of genuine public servants who wish only to create utmost benefit for the largest number of people. If you have that, you're a minority. And if you believe you have that, but actually you don't, you'll find out only after it's too late to save it. It's prudent instead to assume and act like you don't have it in either case. Indeed, some of the greatest democracies have been set up precisely to that end. For many, online privacy isn't at all about advertising. It's about working to a common good of rights and freedom for all. Rest on your laurels all you like, but don't deride others who refuse to. It is only through the efforts of such people, and in the past those like them, that any of us have the ability to take any such rest at all.
beardog 4y ago
> Most of us are self-aware that I'm not that important to be specifically targeted. Of course, not in the sense that the FBI, Wagner Group, or the boogy man are going after you today (but you never know what the future holds) - however data brokers and large companies have a financial incentive right now to know as much about everyone as possible and the information they collect is increasingly being used to decide your insurance rates, give you employment, etc. >People who live a privileged life and have nothing else important going on in their life choose this hill to die on. I mostly agree, however privacy issues impact the less privileged more, for example women seeking abortions in unfriendly states, teenagers learning about queer issues in a toxic community/family, people fleeing abusive relationships (the effort some stalkers do is truly insanity), minority groups (e.g. undocumented immigrants). Sure these groups can't dedicate lots of mental energy to privacy but plug and play browsers like this one make it easier and even if you are highly privileged protecting your privacy makes it more acceptable for others to do so too.