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The difference between the king of Thailand and Xi Jinping is that the former is basically a cultural institution, while the latter is a political figure who us

by fsloth 4y ago

The difference between the king of Thailand and Xi Jinping is that the former is basically a cultural institution, while the latter is a political figure who uses repression and censorship to consolidate power. Xi's power grab is not part of some Chinese cherished cultural tradition - it's just a power grab, and probably viewed as such even within the party.

jpgvm 4y ago
I'm aware of the differences. I just wanted to provide an example of censorship that is more aligned with cultural values to provide a counter-example to the thread that violating such laws can never be exclusionary. There are are similar laws that involve depictions of The Buddha, monks etc here that would fall into the same category. I imagine this is less contentious for Western observers because religion is often a protected class in Western nations too. The idea of the head of state being immune to criticism however hits a political sore spot however and triggers these sorts of standoff views. I just feel this sort of nuance is lost on primarily American audiences. The world isn't homogenous and at least here in Thailand values are significantly different for better or worse.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  Here’s the difference: is Holz banning the production of images of the King?
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  > can never be exclusionary I think this isn't quite the right word. "Off-putting", perhaps? It doesn't exclude anyone.
- tekknik 4y ago
  > I just feel this sort of nuance is lost on primarily American audiences. The world isn't homogenous and at least here in Thailand values are significantly different for better or worse. So why not reduce functionality in the foreign versions and allow the rest of the world to have this functionality?
  - jpgvm 4y ago
    I think it depends on if the output space is shared. In the case of MidJourney the output is in Discord for all to see. Setting community standards like no-porn is about creating a space where the most possible people will feel welcome. I would like to think a policy of "no disrespectful imagery" of legally-protected deities or figures wouldn't be that burdensome as a whole. It also helps to avoid drama. There is probably places that such drama would be a welcome addition but I get the feeling MidJourney is not one of those places. I'm not saying we should bake such constraints into the models, that I think is in poor taste and unnecessary. If people can run the model on their own machine where the output is private to them they should be allowed to generate whatever they want and they can post that in venues where that sort of content is acceptable. But when images are emitted into a public shared space I do think some rules on what is and isn't appropriate are fair game. At the end of the day it's meant to be an AI art community that is about the fusion of technology and creativity. It's not setup to be a place for political discourse.
    - tekknik 4y ago
      Discord is banned in China. If any Chinese who agree with Chinese law are on Discord they are violated said law. So no, not this.
FpUser 4y ago
>"he former is basically a cultural institution" Cultural my ass. It is as political as it gets. Just do a search on Lèse-majesté in Thailand. Here is one from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Thailand#:~:text=Section%20112%20of%20Thai%20Criminal,of%20three%20to%20fifteen%20years.%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Thai...
collegeburner 4y ago
calling a political figure a "cultural tradition" sounds like a flimsy excuse to try to short-circuit any political debate about a monarch. makes me wanna start whistling yankee doodle...

by fsloth 4y ago

jpgvm 4y ago

I'm aware of the differences. I just wanted to provide an example of censorship that is more aligned with cultural values to provide a counter-example to the thread that violating such laws can never be exclusionary. There are are similar laws that involve depictions of The Buddha, monks etc here that would fall into the same category. I imagine this is less contentious for Western observers because religion is often a protected class in Western nations too. The idea of the head of state being immune to criticism however hits a political sore spot however and triggers these sorts of standoff views. I just feel this sort of nuance is lost on primarily American audiences. The world isn't homogenous and at least here in Thailand values are significantly different for better or worse.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
Here’s the difference: is Holz banning the production of images of the King?
robertlagrant 4y ago
> can never be exclusionary I think this isn't quite the right word. "Off-putting", perhaps? It doesn't exclude anyone.
tekknik 4y ago
> I just feel this sort of nuance is lost on primarily American audiences. The world isn't homogenous and at least here in Thailand values are significantly different for better or worse. So why not reduce functionality in the foreign versions and allow the rest of the world to have this functionality?
- jpgvm 4y ago
  I think it depends on if the output space is shared. In the case of MidJourney the output is in Discord for all to see. Setting community standards like no-porn is about creating a space where the most possible people will feel welcome. I would like to think a policy of "no disrespectful imagery" of legally-protected deities or figures wouldn't be that burdensome as a whole. It also helps to avoid drama. There is probably places that such drama would be a welcome addition but I get the feeling MidJourney is not one of those places. I'm not saying we should bake such constraints into the models, that I think is in poor taste and unnecessary. If people can run the model on their own machine where the output is private to them they should be allowed to generate whatever they want and they can post that in venues where that sort of content is acceptable. But when images are emitted into a public shared space I do think some rules on what is and isn't appropriate are fair game. At the end of the day it's meant to be an AI art community that is about the fusion of technology and creativity. It's not setup to be a place for political discourse.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    Discord is banned in China. If any Chinese who agree with Chinese law are on Discord they are violated said law. So no, not this.

FpUser 4y ago

>"he former is basically a cultural institution" Cultural my ass. It is as political as it gets. Just do a search on Lèse-majesté in Thailand. Here is one from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Thailand#:~:text=Section%20112%20of%20Thai%20Criminal,of%20three%20to%20fifteen%20years.%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Thai...

collegeburner 4y ago

calling a political figure a "cultural tradition" sounds like a flimsy excuse to try to short-circuit any political debate about a monarch. makes me wanna start whistling yankee doodle...