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If it is a simulation, what is it simulating? There would have to be a "real" reference to compare against?

jasamer 4y ago
I don't think a simulation needs to simulate anything real. Eg. if I have a program that runs Conway's game of life, that would be also be a simulation, but there's nothing "real" it references against. In other words, the universe simulating ours might work completely differently, and some beings there are just testing how different laws of physics (i.e. ours) work out.
- archerx 4y ago
  The definition of simulation is: imitation of a situation or process. "simulation of blood flowing through arteries and veins" I love the game of life but I don't really consider it a simulation, it's a toy that with the right parameters could simulate something.
- wruza 4y ago
  some beings there are just testing how different laws of physics (i.e. ours) work out Or there is a practical use like energy extraction. Or they live (if that even applies) in a universe that generates what our closest concepts of are e.g. time and energy, and they have to spend them massively in simulations to survive. Or their laws of nature tend to overcommunicate (dilute) them into a single being, so they simulate everything we see for islands of “themselves” to remain distinct. They split themselves endlessly with perception because that’s the trick in their situation. One of my nightmares is to wake up from this and realize you woken up from a mild depression into a horror of a true existence, and this isn’t even a final level. Makes sense, since if god is infinite, why shouldn’t he be infinitely suffering. Why would he (you) create all this if not to escape from null-reality.
zamadatix 4y ago
If I launch a random cellular automaton there isn't as much a real reference I'm trying to compare it to as just seeing what cool things it does. Maybe I can coax it into something comparable if I want, e.g. pick rule 110 and set it up to run ChatGPT and write this comment, but the only "realness" requirement is it follow what logic allows not it has a real reference it's supposed to emulate and be compared to.
- archerx 4y ago
  I wouldn't call that a simulation though, it's just a looping process with rules. A simulation implies imitation, so if it's not imitating anything is it a simulation?
  - grupthink 4y ago
    It would be simulating causality. If you had a water maze that was large enough - with enough gates, switches, and circuits - then it would be turing complete and simulate its own universe. But the more likely scenario is that it doesn't compile into anything. The point is, given enough time, and space (it's going to be one large maze) it's capable of applying the same rules of causality, and calculating the same math across all universes. That said, if your quarks and neutrinos blip in and out of existence, you can blame it on the turbulent water maze(s) higher in our simulation stack. :)
quickthrower2 4y ago
Factorio running inside minecraft running inside roblox.
- archerx 4y ago
  Turtles all the way down...

I don't think a simulation needs to simulate anything real. Eg. if I have a program that runs Conway's game of life, that would be also be a simulation, but there's nothing "real" it references against. In other words, the universe simulating ours might work completely differently, and some beings there are just testing how different laws of physics (i.e. ours) work out.

archerx 4y ago
The definition of simulation is: imitation of a situation or process. "simulation of blood flowing through arteries and veins" I love the game of life but I don't really consider it a simulation, it's a toy that with the right parameters could simulate something.
wruza 4y ago
some beings there are just testing how different laws of physics (i.e. ours) work out Or there is a practical use like energy extraction. Or they live (if that even applies) in a universe that generates what our closest concepts of are e.g. time and energy, and they have to spend them massively in simulations to survive. Or their laws of nature tend to overcommunicate (dilute) them into a single being, so they simulate everything we see for islands of “themselves” to remain distinct. They split themselves endlessly with perception because that’s the trick in their situation. One of my nightmares is to wake up from this and realize you woken up from a mild depression into a horror of a true existence, and this isn’t even a final level. Makes sense, since if god is infinite, why shouldn’t he be infinitely suffering. Why would he (you) create all this if not to escape from null-reality.

zamadatix 4y ago

If I launch a random cellular automaton there isn't as much a real reference I'm trying to compare it to as just seeing what cool things it does. Maybe I can coax it into something comparable if I want, e.g. pick rule 110 and set it up to run ChatGPT and write this comment, but the only "realness" requirement is it follow what logic allows not it has a real reference it's supposed to emulate and be compared to.

archerx 4y ago
I wouldn't call that a simulation though, it's just a looping process with rules. A simulation implies imitation, so if it's not imitating anything is it a simulation?
- grupthink 4y ago
  It would be simulating causality. If you had a water maze that was large enough - with enough gates, switches, and circuits - then it would be turing complete and simulate its own universe. But the more likely scenario is that it doesn't compile into anything. The point is, given enough time, and space (it's going to be one large maze) it's capable of applying the same rules of causality, and calculating the same math across all universes. That said, if your quarks and neutrinos blip in and out of existence, you can blame it on the turbulent water maze(s) higher in our simulation stack. :)

quickthrower2 4y ago

Factorio running inside minecraft running inside roblox.

archerx 4y ago
Turtles all the way down...